[djentbat]

actually, as I have to wait till the end of May, I started thinking if the Spring 3 would be a better choice... but the price is 2X higher! So...decided to work out my patience... and meanwhile just bought some Mazda's 6V6G + Philips' E80CC, this should make my waiting for the cyan2 much more bearable

I will tell you if you haven’t heard any ZMF’s with the holo audio stuff… it is a transcendent experience. I had my atrium at hand for SoCal CJ 2023 and it turned the atrium into an extremely detailed bass cannon. It was remarkable….
Currently saving to get the entire stack haha

 

[DrDen]

This post has literally been linked in like 3-4 times on the past few pages. I really wonder sometimes, what some people think jumping between threads and asking for the latest and greatest information without doing zero legwork: even reading the last 5 pages.

I think it’s hopeless like Don Quixote’s fighting with windmills.
Some people prefer reading, some asking, but most of them like to answer the simple questions from the newbies.

 

[npatrix]

New Phillips E80CC + Mazda 6V6G, just delighted
With tube roll, this amp just become next level... I was about to sell it, now I am addicted

 

[LetTheKidsTechno]

First off, thank you @betula for that amazing comparison. The MJ3 hype was getting a bit out of control and had me questioning my HA-3A. Thankfully, the magic is definitely in the tubes!

I jumped on the E80CC train about a month or two ago after catching a pair of lightly used Phillips Miniwatt on classifieds. They far outperform the 12au7's the previous owner provided (PSvane Art Series), although initially I thought they might be a bit too energetic for me. After some rectifier swapping (settled on stock RCA) and I guess brain burn in, I absolutely love these tubes. I currently have them paired with Brimar 6v6GT and its the best my LCD4's have sounded. Punchy and dynamic with great subbass extension, lush midrange, and crisp, sparkly highs that are ALMOST too much. I think pairing the E80CC with a warmer driver tube is the route to go unless you really enjoy treble detail.

I've been going through my entire rock and metal collection again, as electric guitars have an extremely satisfying crunch and weight to each riff. Throw in the wide soundstage and natural sounding vocals, and this tube amp hits on all marks for me. Not sure how much more tube swapping I'll do with the preamp tubes, but some of the other driver tubes have me intrigued if I can find them for the right price and condition. I think my next step is a DAC upgrade, as the Cyan2 looks to be a winner at a very fair price. Been seeing some HA-3A's pop up on classifieds in the ~$1k range which is an absolute bargain (given its in excellent condition) that I think anyone interested getting into tubes should jump on!

 

[LXMc]

First off, thank you @betula for that amazing comparison. The MJ3 hype was getting a bit out of control and had me questioning my HA-3A. Thankfully, the magic is definitely in the tubes!

I jumped on the E80CC train about a month or two ago after catching a pair of lightly used Phillips Miniwatt on classifieds. They far outperform the 12au7's the previous owner provided (PSvane Art Series), although initially I thought they might be a bit too energetic for me. After some rectifier swapping (settled on stock RCA) and I guess brain burn in, I absolutely love these tubes. I currently have them paired with Brimar 6v6GT and its the best my LCD4's have sounded. Punchy and dynamic with great subbass extension, lush midrange, and crisp, sparkly highs that are ALMOST too much. I think pairing the E80CC with a warmer driver tube is the route to go unless you really enjoy treble detail.

I've been going through my entire rock and metal collection again, as electric guitars have an extremely satisfying crunch and weight to each riff. Throw in the wide soundstage and natural sounding vocals, and this tube amp hits on all marks for me. Not sure how much more tube swapping I'll do with the preamp tubes, but some of the other driver tubes have me intrigued if I can find them for the right price and condition. I think my next step is a DAC upgrade, as the Cyan2 looks to be a winner at a very fair price. Been seeing some HA-3A's pop up on classifieds in the ~$1k range which is an absolute bargain (given its in excellent condition) that I think anyone interested getting into tubes should jump on!

I am currently listening to my HA-3A with e80cc's and a 3-day old Cyan 2 and it is the best my Auteur Classics have ever sounded. Really phenomenal. Glad you feel reassured in your amp ownership - it's so good.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

First off, thank you @betula for that amazing comparison. The MJ3 hype was getting a bit out of control and had me questioning my HA-3A. Thankfully, the magic is definitely in the tubes!

I jumped on the E80CC train about a month or two ago after catching a pair of lightly used Phillips Miniwatt on classifieds. They far outperform the 12au7's the previous owner provided (PSvane Art Series), although initially I thought they might be a bit too energetic for me. After some rectifier swapping (settled on stock RCA) and I guess brain burn in, I absolutely love these tubes. I currently have them paired with Brimar 6v6GT and its the best my LCD4's have sounded. Punchy and dynamic with great subbass extension, lush midrange, and crisp, sparkly highs that are ALMOST too much. I think pairing the E80CC with a warmer driver tube is the route to go unless you really enjoy treble detail.

I've been going through my entire rock and metal collection again, as electric guitars have an extremely satisfying crunch and weight to each riff. Throw in the wide soundstage and natural sounding vocals, and this tube amp hits on all marks for me. Not sure how much more tube swapping I'll do with the preamp tubes, but some of the other driver tubes have me intrigued if I can find them for the right price and condition. I think my next step is a DAC upgrade, as the Cyan2 looks to be a winner at a very fair price. Been seeing some HA-3A's pop up on classifieds in the ~$1k range which is an absolute bargain (given its in excellent condition) that I think anyone interested getting into tubes should jump on!

I have the same Brimar 6V6 tubes and whilst they are very punchy and dynamic which synergises well with the LCD 4, they do kill the soundstage which sounds terrible with the HEKSE and I can't be bothered to keep switching the 6V6 tubes and wait for them to warm up when I want to switch from the LCD 4 to the HEKSE so I just settled on the Reflektor 6V6GT.

 

[LetTheKidsTechno]

I have the same Brimar 6V6 tubes and whilst they are very punchy and dynamic which synergises well with the LCD 4, they do kill the soundstage which sounds terrible with the HEKSE and I can't be bothered to keep switching the 6V6 tubes and wait for them to warm up when I want to switch from the LCD 4 to the HEKSE so I just settled on the Reflektor 6V6GT.

I don't have other NOS driver tubes to compare to just yet. I think since the LCD4 doesn't have a super wide stage to begin with, I don't notice much of a difference. I can see how a Hifiman would be a no go. Those Reflektors are pretty dang cheap, might get a pair to throw into the tube collection.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

I don't have other NOS driver tubes to compare to just yet. I think since the LCD4 doesn't have a super wide stage to begin with, I don't notice much of a difference. I can see how a Hifiman would be a no go. Those Reflektors are pretty dang cheap, might get a pair to throw into the tube collection.

Yeah with the Hifiman its a no go due to the soundstage collapsing.

The Reflektors are very cheap and for their performance and open, airy soundstage they are a very good tube to try.

 

[mudguardiain]

Has anyone used E80Cc with HE1000 Stealth, bit concerned they may be a bit too much. Also a bit concerned about the long term stress on the amp. Currently I am more than happy running the Gold lion tubes, very detailed, wide stage, just curious if I can push the sound to even greater heights

 

[betula]

Just reflecting on the posts above. Out of curiosity, I popped back in my Brimar 6V6 tubes. This is actually the first time I try them with my E80CCs.

First of all, I think @LetTheKidsTechno is right saying these Brimars are a good match with the E80CCs. The energetic, dynamic and slightly brighter nature of the E80CCs is very well balanced by the thicker, warmer and quite mellow sounding Brimars. Bass is big and punchy too.

On the other hand, @TheAbyss2022 is right saying that soundstage suffers a little bit on the Brimars compared to other 6V6 tubes. Most notably the upper-mid/treble has less air to breathe. This is the small price to pay if someone wants the warm and mellow character of the Brimars.

To me this is just another example, how much the whole system synergy matters when choosing your tubes. IMO the biggest treat of the HEKSE is the huge (tall) soundstage. You don't want to limit the biggest strength of your headphones. The LCD4 and my Caldera still have good soundstage, but not as huge as the HEKSE so the slightly 'lower ceiling' is not as bothering.

To add my 2C as well, I just share my thoughts about my Bendix 6V6GTY and Brimar 6V6GT since I have just swapped them out.
I am surprised, how well the Brimars work with the E80CC. It really is a good balance, a good combo for someone who finds the E80CCs too intense. A nice, warm and mellow alternative. In comparison my Bendix pair sound more balanced, more neutral, more technical, clearer, more detailed and a little more spacious. Also, more dynamic with the E80CCs. Overall, I find the Bendix to be a higher quality tube, but the Brimars have a beautiful flavour and I can see myself reaching for this flavour every now and then.

Another thought regarding this recent E80CC hype, while I do share the sentiment that the E80CCs in general just bump the HA-3A's performance to the next level technically (notably increased space, increased dynamics, control and detail), they do not necessarily completely invalidate 12AU7 tubes for everyone. The E80CC sound is a lot more dynamic and intense, which is not for everyone, or at least not always. The better 12AU7 tubes offer a more laid-back, less intense, less clear and less detailed listen, but they are still beautiful, balanced and provide a good, relaxing listening experience.

There will never be 'one tube to rule them all', and while recommendations and advice can help, you cannot completely escape personal experimenting on your own system with your own ears to find your preference.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Just reflecting on the posts above. Out of curiosity, I popped back in my Brimar 6V6 tubes. This is actually the first time I try them with my E80CCs.

First of all, I think @LetTheKidsTechno is right saying these Brimars are a good match with the E80CCs. The energetic, dynamic and slightly brighter nature of the E80CCs is very well balanced by the thicker, warmer and quite mellow sounding Brimars. Bass is big and punchy too.

On the other hand, @TheAbyss2022 is right saying that soundstage suffers a little bit on the Brimars compared to other 6V6 tubes. Most notably the upper-mid/treble has less air to breathe. This is the small price to pay if someone wants the warm and mellow character of the Brimars.

To me this is just another example, how much the whole system synergy matters when choosing your tubes. IMO the biggest treat of the HEKSE is the huge (tall) soundstage. You don't want to limit the biggest strength of your headphones. The LCD4 and my Caldera still have good soundstage, but not as huge as the HEKSE so the slightly 'lower ceiling' is not as bothering.

To add my 2C as well, I just share my thoughts about my Bendix 6V6GTY and Brimar 6V6GT since I have just swapped them out.
I am surprised, how well the Brimars work with the E80CC. It really is a good balance, a good combo for someone who finds the E80CCs too intense. A nice, warm and mellow alternative. In comparison my Bendix pair sound more balanced, more neutral, more technical, clearer, more detailed and a little more spacious. Also, more dynamic with the E80CCs. Overall, I find the Bendix to be a higher quality tube, but the Brimars have a beautiful flavour and I can see myself reaching for this flavour every now and then.

Another thought regarding this recent E80CC hype, while I do share the sentiment that the E80CCs in general just bump the HA-3A's performance to the next level technically (notably increased space, increased dynamics, control and detail), they do not necessarily completely invalidate 12AU7 tubes for everyone. The E80CC sound is a lot more dynamic and intense, which is not for everyone, or at least not always. The better 12AU7 tubes offer a more laid-back, less intense, less clear and less detailed listen, but they are still beautiful, balanced and provide a good, relaxing listening experience.

There will never be 'one tube to rule them all', and while recommendations and advice can help, you cannot completely escape personal experimenting on your own system with your own ears to find your preference.

I don't know what service you use but up sampling in Audirvana to either 705.6khz/768khz has really open up the soundstage even more on the LCD 4 & HEKSE. It's probably opened the soundstage by a further 15-20%.

The LCD 4 especially is now incredibly spacious with the combination of the up sampling and the tube combination of the Reflektor 6V6T & Telefunken ECC82.

For perspective its getting real close to the soundstage in the LCD2C.

 

[betula]

I don't know what service you use but up sampling in Audirvana to either 705.6khz/768khz has really open up the soundstage even more on the LCD 4 & HEKSE. It's probably opened the soundstage by a further 15-20%.

I am quite happy with my soundstage. Currently my streamer feeds 192kHz PCM to my DAC. If and when I will have time and interest, I will experiment with HQ player since my NOS R2R DAC is capable of native DSD.

 

[LetTheKidsTechno]

To piggyback off @betula I don't think the E80CC invalidates the 12au7 either. The PSvane art series while not NOS are still very capable and pleasant tubes. I actually still find myself reaching for them on some genres, especially for more poorly recorded tracks where treble can be unforgiving. Having a nice mix of tubes to fine tune the sound is an experience I'm very much enjoying in this audio journey. Luckily for the HA-3A, 12au7's and 6v6 tubes don't completely break the wallet like other tube variants, so it gives you a bit of flexibility on what flavors of sound you want to pursue.

 

[NJoyzAudio]

Just reflecting on the posts above. Out of curiosity, I popped back in my Brimar 6V6 tubes. This is actually the first time I try them with my E80CCs.

First of all, I think @LetTheKidsTechno is right saying these Brimars are a good match with the E80CCs. The energetic, dynamic and slightly brighter nature of the E80CCs is very well balanced by the thicker, warmer and quite mellow sounding Brimars. Bass is big and punchy too.

On the other hand, @TheAbyss2022 is right saying that soundstage suffers a little bit on the Brimars compared to other 6V6 tubes. Most notably the upper-mid/treble has less air to breathe. This is the small price to pay if someone wants the warm and mellow character of the Brimars.

To me this is just another example, how much the whole system synergy matters when choosing your tubes. IMO the biggest treat of the HEKSE is the huge (tall) soundstage. You don't want to limit the biggest strength of your headphones. The LCD4 and my Caldera still have good soundstage, but not as huge as the HEKSE so the slightly 'lower ceiling' is not as bothering.

To add my 2C as well, I just share my thoughts about my Bendix 6V6GTY and Brimar 6V6GT since I have just swapped them out.
I am surprised, how well the Brimars work with the E80CC. It really is a good balance, a good combo for someone who finds the E80CCs too intense. A nice, warm and mellow alternative. In comparison my Bendix pair sound more balanced, more neutral, more technical, clearer, more detailed and a little more spacious. Also, more dynamic with the E80CCs. Overall, I find the Bendix to be a higher quality tube, but the Brimars have a beautiful flavour and I can see myself reaching for this flavour every now and then.

Another thought regarding this recent E80CC hype, while I do share the sentiment that the E80CCs in general just bump the HA-3A's performance to the next level technically (notably increased space, increased dynamics, control and detail), they do not necessarily completely invalidate 12AU7 tubes for everyone. The E80CC sound is a lot more dynamic and intense, which is not for everyone, or at least not always. The better 12AU7 tubes offer a more laid-back, less intense, less clear and less detailed listen, but they are still beautiful, balanced and provide a good, relaxing listening experience.

There will never be 'one tube to rule them all', and while recommendations and advice can help, you cannot completely escape personal experimenting on your own system with your own ears to find your preference.

Betula

Very nicely written summary

And yes agree 100% that rotating in different 6V6 tubes will change the soundstage, (including L to R, and depth)
Some 6V6's are warmer, others as Betula noted clearer, and my 2 cents with the impression of enhanced soundstage. These tubes could be its just emphasizing a range different than the warmer tubes which gives that impression, and yes yet some other 6V6's are just more neutral and have a better stage period

I've read earlier on many where say the Mazda's tend to be more on the neutral side and allow the Pre-Amp tube rolls to be more of the change and I agree, as well as the Mazda's seem to have a little more clarity, yet IMO still offer a little "bump" to the lows, but not as much as rolling the Pre-amp tubes did.
these by far are my favorite, and I have 6V6G ST type Brimar, Fivre, RAF Blackglass CV509, Mullard and the in the 6V6 GTY style the vaunted 5992 power tubes, and another set of Mazda's
No matter what I roll in to the 6V6 slot, I always seem to come back to the Mazda's (npatrix, great pics, I have the same 6v6G "coke bottle tubes" as well as the 6v6GT type Mazda tubes, and IMO I like the "Coke Bottle, Shoulder Tube - ST - a little more, but it is personal taste as a good friend who came by one day and listened to my amp, liked the GT/GTY tubes I have more.)
The 5992's seem to offer a faster "pace" than the Mazda's and are great tubes, but EXPENSIVE, and lots of fakes/bad tubes out there for the 5992

And also agree with Betula that the E80cc does NOT completely displace the 12AU7's, not everyone should run out and get them.
There are some 12AU7's that are just outstanding in sound, just maybe a little less dynamic than the E80cc.
I'd love to get my hands on some of the Mazda Long Silver Plate 12AU7's that some have described to me as better than the E80cc, but the price of these are just as eye watering as the Telefunken G73R. (Another 12AU7 I'd love to try as some on these forums call it the holy grail of 12AU7) at close to $1K a pair....OUCH!

Thanks Betula for your words above
npatrix, congrats on your setup and I can vouch that setup does sound great.
Agree with you both for what I listen to it takes the HA-3A to the next level.
But it is 100% personal taste as I've had others tell me, to them the E80cc was too much and have I tried "X or Y" 12AU7, as they prefer the sound, and as Betula noted feel its a little more laid back and natrual sounding.
As I wrote earlier, the E80cc will NOT be for everyone but...
Great thing about the HA-3A it is VERY flexible, and can become what you want, with a little work and research.

For npatrix, notice you have the stock from Cayin NOS RCA coinbase rectifier in your picture.
Its a good tube, but rolling through several other NOS rectifiers (I have NOS rectifier tubes from GE, Tungsol, Raytheon, RCA and Sylvania) and found it offered the least amount of change, but still "changed" the sound a little, and for now have settled on a 60's NOS Sylvania tube
NOTE: I have the 25AX4GT rectifier, some who have the older 22DE4 rectifier have written it did NOT make that much difference. Would love to read some feedback for those who have rolled either)

Again all is IMO and definitely YMMV as we all hear differently and are probably chasing a different sound signature.

 

[betula]

Betula

Very nicely written summary

And yes agree 100% that rotating in different 6V6 tubes will change the soundstage, (including L to R, and depth)
Some 6V6's are warmer, others as Betula noted clearer, and my 2 cents with the impression of enhanced soundstage. These tubes could be its just emphasizing a range different than the warmer tubes which gives that impression, and yes yet some other 6V6's are just more neutral and have a better stage period

I've read earlier on many where say the Mazda's tend to be more on the neutral side and allow the Pre-Amp tube rolls to be more of the change and I agree, as well as the Mazda's seem to have a little more clarity, yet IMO still offer a little "bump" to the lows, but not as much as rolling the Pre-amp tubes did.
these by far are my favorite, and I have 6V6G ST type Brimar, Fivre, RAF Blackglass CV509, Mullard and the in the 6V6 GTY style the vaunted 5992 power tubes, and another set of Mazda's
No matter what I roll in to the 6V6 slot, I always seem to come back to the Mazda's (npatrix, great pics, I have the same 6v6G "coke bottle tubes" as well as the 6v6GT type Mazda tubes, and IMO I like the "Coke Bottle, Shoulder Tube - ST - a little more, but it is personal taste as a good friend who came by one day and listened to my amp, liked the GT/GTY tubes I have more.)
The 5992's seem to offer a faster "pace" than the Mazda's and are great tubes, but EXPENSIVE, and lots of fakes/bad tubes out there for the 5992

And also agree with Betula that the E80cc does NOT completely displace the 12AU7's, not everyone should run out and get them.
There are some 12AU7's that are just outstanding in sound, just maybe a little less dynamic than the E80cc.
I'd love to get my hands on some of the Mazda Long Silver Plate 12AU7's that some have described to me as better than the E80cc, but the price of these are just as eye watering as the Telefunken G73R. (Another 12AU7 I'd love to try as some on these forums call it the holy grail of 12AU7) at close to $1K a pair....OUCH!

Thanks Betula for your words above
npatrix, congrats on your setup and I can vouch that setup does sound great.
Agree with you both for what I listen to it takes the HA-3A to the next level.
But it is 100% personal taste as I've had others tell me, to them the E80cc was too much and have I tried "X or Y" 12AU7, as they prefer the sound, and as Betula noted feel its a little more laid back and natrual sounding.
As I wrote earlier, the E80cc will NOT be for everyone but...
Great thing about the HA-3A it is VERY flexible, and can become what you want, with a little work and research.

For npatrix, notice you have the stock from Cayin NOS RCA coinbase rectifier in your picture.
Its a good tube, but rolling through several other NOS rectifiers (I have NOS rectifier tubes from GE, Tungsol, Raytheon, RCA and Sylvania) and found it offered the least amount of change, but still "changed" the sound a little, and for now have settled on a 60's NOS Sylvania tube
NOTE: I have the 25AX4GT rectifier, some who have the older 22DE4 rectifier have written it did NOT make that much difference. Would love to read some feedback for those who have rolled either)

Again all is IMO and definitely YMMV as we all hear differently and are probably chasing a different sound signature.

Another great and helpful post.

I have a first-generation HA-3A with the 22DE4 rectifier. The only other rectifier I tried is a GE. I prefer the GE to the stock RCA as it adds a little more clarity, but the change is indeed the most subtle compared to the change with the 12AU7/6V6/E80CC tubes. That said, I haven't put the RCA back since I got the GE. I might check if there is a Sylvania 22DE4 available.
Oh, man, this tube business is not very wallet friendly. (Even though the 3A is still one of the most cost-effective TC tube amps when it comes to tube rolling.)