Zurich Mini-Meet (April 2005)
Apr 9, 2005 at 9:47 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 23

saint.panda

Headphoneus Supremus
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Today, we had a truly wonderful mini-meet at JaZZ's place with 5 people, 7-8 amps, around 15-20 headphones, countless cables and 20 sandwiches. We've had some mini-meets during the last year although more in the way of spontaneous meetings with just Jazz and Kurt. Thanks a lot Marcel for opening your doors (once again) for us to gather and for providing shelter, drinks and food.


Some quick notes about three positive surprises:
-Singlepower PPX3 with Sylvania NOS tubes. If I had $600, this would be my amp regardless of SS or tube preference. Despite some deficiencies, the Singlepower bested the Earmax Pro and Corda HA-2 MKII in most areas.
-Sony CD 3000. The Sony heavily shattered my belief system and made me wonder about my prior judgement on the CD3000. I really liked the Sony driven by the tube amps, especially the PPX3. It's a great headphone that is on par with the HD 650 if not better (depending on the song).
-Balanced Dynamight. This is a truly excellent amp and I didn't think the HD 650 was capable of feats I witnessed today. The soundstage was not out of this world but compared to its usual soundstage, it surely was. There were some minor quibbles about the frequency response (slight midrange dip) but that's about it. Ever heard a balanced Sennheiser HD 25-1 from a Dynamight fed by a McCormack UDP-1? Amazing sound. The only downside is that after listening to the Dynamight, it’s rather cruel to be left alone with a Porta Corda again.

More detailed impressions later, also on other equipment (AKG K1000, Prehead MKII, ...).


Five people was just the right size to provide enough listening time and still leave enough room for headphone chit chat. I really enjoyed talking to all of you guys (thanks for bringing all the great gear) and once again, Marcel, thanks a great deal for your hospitality.
 
Apr 10, 2005 at 12:23 AM Post #2 of 23
Yeah the amps and stuff is great but they don't have camera's for pictures????
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Apr 10, 2005 at 9:38 AM Post #3 of 23
Pics 56k friendly, resized by JaZZ

Left: Audio Labs Transport (black CD Player), Philips 963 (silver player), Bel Canto DAC2, Corda HA-2 MKII (with a Zu cable in the headphone jack), JaZZ's "passive headphone amp" (wooden box)
Right: A Sony SACD player (forgot the name), Singlepower PPX3, Earmax Pro with tube dampers, Sonic Impact T amp
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HD 650 with Silver Dragon
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On the desk (left to right): McCormack UDP-1 (silver player), another HD 650 with Zu, Prehead MKII, Stax SRM-T1, another small Stax amp
Sofa: Sonic Impact Amp with AKG 1000, Sony CD3000
Floor: Two of Jazz's electrostats
In the sunshine: PS Audio High Current Ultimate Outlet
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HD 650 with Zu, Philips 963, Corda HA-2 MKII, Jazz's passive headphone amp
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Sofa (front to back): Beyerdynamic DT 660, Beyerdynamic DT 770-250, AKG K271, Sennheiser HD 595, Alessandro MS-1, HD 580, A900
On the box: Singlepower PPX3, Earmax Pro, Sony SACD Player
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Bottom to top: A high-end Dodson DAC, Dynamight Power Supply, Dynamight headphone amp
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Left wall: JaZZ's CD collection
Right wall: Metaxa's power amp, JaZZ's homebrew speakers and tweeters
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The Dynamight Effect: Balanced Sennheiser HD 25-1 with Zu cable
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Apr 10, 2005 at 1:20 PM Post #4 of 23
Tao...

...thanks for the introduction and for hosting the pics! It was a nice meet with nice people and interesting gear. What stood out for me was of course Kurt's mighty DynaMight combo: an insane headphone amp with the size and the heat built-up of two class-A power-amp monoblocks, but also with frequency extension, dynamics, accuracy and control I've never heard before from a headphone amp. Nevertheless another highlight for me was Alain's Prehead MkII which, although extremely similar to my Corda HA-2 MkII, had a decisive advantage when it comes to bass authority and overall refinement and smoothness -- I want one too! Although apparently less controlled than the DynaMight, it had a lusher, fuller midrange with a great flowing liquidity. If I had to decide, I'm not sure which one to choose -- probably it would nevertheless be the DynaMight (depending on the headphone); on the other hand I wouldn't want such a monster at my listening seat...
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The third highlight was Niels' SinglePower PPX. I've never heard a SinglePower amp before, just knew that the PPX is considered the most tubey and euphonic member of the family, and I really liked what I heard: lush, full warm, but nevertheless transparent, detailed and extremely dynamic and lively. My EMP sounded flat and pale in comparison.

As Tao has mentioned, we were five people, all living in Switzerland: Tao (saint.panda -- the black-haired guy with the chinese look), Kurt (the athletic, sad looking [a misleading snapshot] skin-headed guy at the window -- sorry Kurt for the poor representation, the rest of the photos turned out badly!), Niels (the orientalic looking, introverted black-haired young student from Basel), Alain (Slow_aetk -- the bon vivant in the striped shirt who just speaks french and english) and myself (the older person in the black APC shirt).

More Swiss meets to follow!

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Apr 10, 2005 at 2:04 PM Post #6 of 23
Sounds like y'all had a nice meet...I hope that, one of these days, when I visit Europe again, that I'll be able to meet some of you folks.
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Apr 10, 2005 at 3:13 PM Post #7 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ
More Swiss meets to follow!


We'll have another one when your SA5000 arrives...



Impressions

The following impressions are just that and to be honest, they were all good. Really.

Sony CD 3000 vs. Sennheiser HD 650
I used to own these headphones (paired with a Gilmore Lite and a cheap portable player) and sold them due to brightness issues, lack of bass and a weird soundstaging. At a later time I was able to hear the Sony from a Corda Ha-2 MKI fed by a Rega Planet 2000 and still did not like these headphones although looking back it was more of a mindset issue and perhaps not wanting to admit that I sold good headphones before hearing their true potential.

Yesterday I went into the meet with an open mindset and first heard the Sony CD3000 out of the PPX3 fed by a Philips 963 and immediately digged the spacious soundstage, deep bass, high comfort and exciting sound. The music really came to life although there was still something in the highs that bothered me; the midrange also seemed to lack some qualities in comparison to the HD 650.
At a later time I did a thorough comparison between the CD 3000 and the HD 650 (Headphile cable) from a Corda HA-2 MKII fed by a Bel Canto DAC2 (Philips 963 transport). I also used my own gold/silver/copper alloy cable which has already solved many of my brightness problems in my system.
The result was pretty much a tie and there were songs where the CD3000 beat the HD 650 and vice versa. Nevertheless, it was always close. I used a 70 tracks test Cd (includes some tracks from the Chesky Ultimate Test disk, 1812 Ouverture, pop, jazz, rock…) which I use for reviews and co. I compared both headphones for about half an hour.

The CD3000 has a wonderful soundstage and is very holographic in nature. Instrument imaging is good although slighty bettered by the HD 650. The HD 650’s soundstage is much narrower although depth and height is about the same on both headphones The bass is where the CD3000 has the upper hand imo. Despite the HD 650 higher visceral feel to it cause by the midbass bump, the bass also sounded a bit sloppy and muddy compared to the Sony due to the midbass issue. Bass extension was about the same but as mentioned, the Sony’s bass was just more convincing overall. The midrange was more a matter of tonal difference rather than one of quality. The Sony seem to have a less pronounced lower midrange which lends a feeling of higher clarity but at the same time lacking body compared to the Sennheiser.

The treble on the Sony really is a tightrope walk. It’s just on the edge of being right although I can imagine that a harsher source or Ics can easily disturb the balance. There seemed to be more texture in the highs (which on other hand sounded a bit chalky at times) but I think that impression was more due to the frequency related reasons rather than differences in resolution. Nevertheless, a lot of details were more apparent on the CD3000 due to this. More time might have revealed whether the subjective perception of increased detailing would have turned out to be unnatural or not. In the end, detailing has to fit into the musical flow instead of being out of sync leading to a real improvement in the resolution rather than just being tipped up treble and throwing out musical artefacts at random that pretend to be musical details. Certainly, brightness is different from detailing but you can't deny the connection between them. From experience I know that the HD 650 performs this task admirably and I really wanted to spend more time with the Sony. In the end, I never quite lost the impression that the HD 650 has a more naturally pleasing sound whereas the Sony creates this wonderfully sounding sphere that holds you at the neck and doesn’t let go until the song finishes. I would love to have both headphones at my disposal but will have to wait to the hear the SA5000 compared against the CD3000 and HD 650.

Bottom line, both are great headphones and it was hard to declare a tube or SS preference for each headphones because I preferred PPX3 to the HA-2 MKII with both headphones. I should also add that the Sony sounded very nice in conjunction with the Corda's crossfeed.

Grado SR-80 vs. Alessandro MS-1 vs. Grado SR-225 (Sennheiser pads on all of them; source: Bel Canto DAC2; amp: Corda HA-2 MKII)
First up was the easy comparison: Grado SR-225 against the MS-1. Frankly, there was no competition at all because the MS-1 simply sounded like a Grado without the Grado magic - call it coloration if you will. The MS-1 sounded blunt, muddy in the bass and soundstage-weak in comparison. So next up was the SR-80. This comparison was much more difficult because both headphones had flaws and it was more a matter of deciding which flaws to live with. The MS-1 sounds more neutral while the SR-80 had some strange dips and peaks: the midrange sounded thin and some parts of the treble was jacked up. Soundstage- and bass-wise they were about equal. In the end, I liked the MS-1 more due to its slightly better allroundedness.

Beyerdynamic DT 770-250 vs. DT 770-80
(Source: Bel Canto; Amp: Corda HA-2 MKII)
This was the easiest comparison at the meet. The DT 770-250 had thin mids, an uneven frequency response and just no good against the 80 Ohm version.

AKG K271 vs. A900 (Source: Bel Canto; Amp: Corda HA-2 MKII)
From the 70 tracks, test CD, the A900 won in about 2/3 to 3/4 of the disciplines. I always thought that given a better source and amp, the AKG 271 might outrun the A900 but this was not the case. The AKG 271 major problem still is the anemic bass which leads to missing fundament on which the music can base on. It lacks body and the midrange coloration was quite pronounced on certain tracks. Still, the AKG has beter PRaT and slightly better resolution. Nevertheless, since both about in the same performance class, it’s really a matter of personal preference for the tonal characteristics. Still, considering that the A900 sounds good out of everything including an ipod and wins against the AKG 271 in my book even on highend equipment, the practical winner has to the A900. On the other hand, the a900 is also more expensive.

A900 vs. Sony CD3000 (Source: Bel Canto; Amp: Corda HA-2 MKII)
Interestingly, the A900 sounds quite similar to the Sony but worse in about every technical discipline you can think of. Not much else to say about it except that the sound difference was sometimes smaller than the price difference would have indicated.

AKG K1000 (Source: Bel Canto; Amp: Sonic Impact T amp)
Good as always. Magnificent soundstage, clarity, … I didn’t do a direct comparison to the Sony but albeit very different they were about equally good.

Beyerdynamic DT 860 vs. DT 660 (Source: Bel Canto; Amp: Corda HA-2 MKII)
The DT 860 has technical advantages over the DT 660 such as soundstage (very good actually) or resolution but I simply couldn’t stand the tonal balance of the DT 860. The treble emphasis on the DT 860 takes place a little bit higher up than the DT 660 and as result, it sounded thin and bright. The DT 660 has a more solid (yet still cold) sounding upper midrange and holds it own against the AKG 271 or A900 for closed headphones.
When trying both headphones I avoided going from the relatively dark sounding HD 650 directly to the Beyerdynamics (which I did last time; bad idea) and hence tried fitting some other headphones in between. Psychoacoustic effects, even if I know that they take place, can’t be avoided.



Impressions on the amps later but as JaZZ already said, the Dynamight was a real stunner and I'm eagerly awaiting a direct comparison once my Headcode arrives. I still can't decide whether or not to upgrade from the Dual Mono to the Triad configuration. In any case, it should be fun
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Apr 10, 2005 at 4:20 PM Post #8 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda

Impressions on the amps later but as JaZZ already said, the Dynamight was a real stunner and I'm eagerly awaiting a direct comparison once my Headcode arrives. I still can't decide whether or not to upgrade from the Dual Mono to the Triad configuration. In any case, it should be fun
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---execute fanboy.exe---

it would awesome if you could go tri-mono too! .. then we could split the costs of a case, ahh yeah, triple psu goodness, was listening to it friday, with two mono boards on the old bicode psu, while it sounded amazingly detailed and deeply powerful, i cant imagine how good it will sound with dedicated balanced psu in each channel with the new revision of the phil's balanced psu boards, 3 boards - 1 balanced psu per channel, and 18awg silver plated copper and 19awg pure silver stranded wire in a braid throughout, its going to be so amazing, it'll be dispicable!

--- end now--fanboy.exe program terminated abnormally ---> dont send .....
 
Apr 10, 2005 at 4:29 PM Post #9 of 23
You guys certainly had a nice meet for only having 5 attendees! I like the use of tennis balls to help damper Kurt's Dynamight
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Also Jazz, nice shirt
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edit: Also, did anybody get a chance to A/B the HD580's and HD650's with any of the tube amps? Mainly the PPX3...
 
Apr 10, 2005 at 8:44 PM Post #10 of 23
More impressions:

Prehead MKII vs. HA-2 MKII (Source: McCormack UDP-1; Headphones: HD 650 with Zu)
I didn’t expect a huge difference but when doing quick switching between the amps there were some differences after all. The Prehead sounded more effortless whereas the HA-2 always sounded like it was trying hard to keep the pace. The Prehead has a bigger soundstage and also a stronger and tighter bass. At first, the Prehead sounded smoother and the notes had less edge to it but that was more because the Ha-2 sounded strained rather than the Prehead being too smooth. Now, the differences were not huge and both amps share the same coherent Corda sound with a well-defined bass, slightly warm midrange (compared to the Dynamight) and well-extended yet not exagerrating treble. As a previous owner of the HA-2 MKI, which by all means was a great amp (reading the literature on Headfi, on the level of a Emmeline HR-2), I was able to compare the MKI to the MKII at a previous meet and there were some definite improvements by going up the version number. The Prehead MKII, however, takes the evolution just one step further (small but apparent nonetheless) and considering all the new gimmicks (high cut filter, soft tone controls) the new Prehead is a real winner. Add the well-tried preamp and crossfeed functions, you’ve got yourself a really complete headphone amp.

Sft’s Dynamight vs. Prehead MKII
(Source: UDP-1)
So the new Prehead sounds good but how does it compare against an amp twice the price of a Prehead? Certainly, the Dynamight had the upper hand in the detailing departement and the clear upper hand in reproducing a soundstage I’ve never heard out of the HD 650 before. But the Dynamight did not wipe the floor with the Prehead. In fact, the Dynamight can still learn one or two things about tonal balance from the Prehead. The Dynamight’s subtle dip in the midrange made the treble stand out slightly more. Well, that doesn’t have to be a bad thing because I’ve never heard treble as precise and resolving as from the Dynamight before. Add to that the complete lack of fatigue and harshness.
So soundstage and resolving power are the Dynamight’s strengths but what else? Well, the bass. The Dynamight’s bass is monstrous and coupled with the huge, holographic soundstage, the 1812 ouverture sounded absolutely unreal.
Even so, the Dyanmight is not perfect as I was wishing for slightly more prominent lower/mid midrange and on the practical downside, this thing is huge as you can see from the pictures and gets really hot. Kurt said that the transformers are rated at something like 250 Watts. A headphone amp.
Despite all that, it's the best amp I've ever heard, tube or solid state.

PPX3 vs. EMP (Source : Bel Canto DAC 2)
The PPX3 was superior in both tonal richness as well as dynamics and treble extension. The PPX3 was more detailed, had a bigger soundstage and simply more musical than the EMP without sacrificing resolution or transparency. Admittingly, the EMP sounded slightly more tubey but more in a negative sense as the PPX3 successfully demonstrated how to combine the magical midrange with clarity nonetheless.

PPX3 vs. HA-2 MKII (Source : Bel Canto DAC 2)
This comparison was much closer but the PPX3 had the edge over the Corda amp. Better soundstage (width and depth), alluring midrange and above all the killer bass. In fact, the bass difference was the most apparent with the Singlepower providing a deep and well-controlled bass that the Corda couldn’t really match. Resolving capabilities were about the same although the Corda had the slight upper hand when it came to PRaT and transient attacks. It was the faster amp but it did not reproduce the treble as effortless as the PPX3 did. The PPX3 beat the Corda HA-2 at a home game meaning in the coherency departement but most of all, there was this magical tube midrange. To be frank, the PPX3 simply made the music sound better and I don’t really care whether it was euphonic or not. If you add the price difference between the HA-2 MKII ($800 due to the weak dollar at the moment) and the PPX3 ($600 with Solen Stage 1 as Niels told me) I have to say that as much as I like the Corda amps, the PPX3 outwitted the Corda in my honest opinion. It’s true that you have the extra crossfeed function on the Corda and the pre-out but for sound quality alone I’d shoot for the PPX3.
Unfortunately I didn’t get to compare the PPX3 to the Prehead but I was told by the others that the Prehead was still the better amp. For the record, I prefer the Corda HA-2 MKII over the EMP so this doesn't only have to with tube or solid state preference.

Finally, I’d like to add that sound differences between amps often to be described in a more exaggerated way although in fact, they are rather small compared to differences between headphones, especially if you compare amps that are so close in performance such as the PPX3 or Corda HA-2 MKII. When two amps are on an equal level, it’s not like personal preference for a certain house sound couldn’t easily upset the balance, just like somebody prefers the Sennheiser HD 650 over the Sony CD3000. Also, these are all just impressions coming from a college student so don’t take them too seriously
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Quote:

Originally Posted by xtreme4099
---execute fanboy.exe---

it would awesome if you could go tri-mono too! .. then we could split the costs of a case, ahh yeah, triple psu goodness, was listening to it friday, with two mono boards on the old bicode psu, while it sounded amazingly detailed and deeply powerful, i cant imagine how good it will sound with dedicated balanced psu in each channel with the new revision of the phil's balanced psu boards, 3 boards - 1 balanced psu per channel, and 18awg silver plated copper and 19awg pure silver stranded wire in a braid throughout, its going to be so amazing, it'll be dispicable!

--- end now--fanboy.exe program terminated abnormally ---> dont send .....



I don't really have a choice, do I?
tongue.gif
Sent you a pm about this.
 
Apr 10, 2005 at 10:13 PM Post #11 of 23
Tao...

...very adequate and well-worded impressions in my humble opinion. Of course I take them seriously, even though they're from a humble college student!
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I agree with you almost word by word, except for the last paragraph. Despite my impressedness about the PPX's capabilities I finally preferred my HA-2 MkII for its higher resolution and «tubeyer» midrange. The PPX sounded livelier, no doubt, and had the more powerful bass and higher effortless throughout the spectrum -- that's why I'd give it the edge with PRaT --, but I appreciated the Corda's smoothness, resolution and liquidity even more, although it sounded too «controlled» or shy in some way.

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Apr 11, 2005 at 3:01 PM Post #12 of 23
Thanks to JaZZ for hosting and food.

Thanks also to the participants for bringing their gear and good company.

McCormack UDP-1:
The best player I heard so far. And with the SACD and the DVD Audio capability, I think JaZZ is set for quite a while.

Prehead MKII:
Powerfull, with a liquid midrange. A clear step above HA-2 MKII.

Sennheiser HD 25-1:
I was already impressed the last time I heard the HD 25 out of a H140, although then they were a bit bass emphasized and almost a little boomy with a certain glare in the heights. This time we connected the phones to the DynaMight via the ZU and drove them in balanced mode and the bass was tight and controlled and I found no weak points in the presentation. In a portable situation, my guess is the HD25-1 can benefit quite a bit from a powerful portable amp.

Singlepower PPX3:
Lively and punchy, with a slight roll of in the heights. One can easily understand why so many people like this amp.

Sony CD 3000:
Driven by adequate gear, the Sony were quite a surprise. Bright, but never in a disturbing way, they had a wonderful soundstage and resolution. I also didn’t hear any kind of bass deficit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda
The only downside is that after listening to the Dynamight, it’s rather cruel to be left alone with a Porta Corda again.


You can use my EMP until your amp arrives, if you like. Not that we have a second Mr. Ampless here. =o)

Cheers
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 6:59 PM Post #13 of 23
My first "head-fi" meeting but not the last. We really built a typical swiss community: multi lingual, multi ethnic, good beer, good food, good music, great fun! Thanks Marcel, Kurt, Tao and Niels for this great time.

As a genuine head-fi noob, coming to his first meet, I had a lot of questions and I got some very precious answers: Finding "good" listening level, to wear the 650 low on the ears, difference in cables, my preference for the 650 against many other headphones, that my head is too big for the K1000, that my transport might not be up to the task, that I need a power conditioner, etc...

I could really compare my setup and find how it behaves against lower and higher end stuff. Very enlighting, Marcel's UDP-1 is the best source I've heard by far, Kurt's dynamight is awsome but as I listen in my bedroom I would also need an air conditioner to cool the room to sleeping level temperature
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At first, with a Sony source I didn't like Niels's PPX3, I found the bass exagerated and fuzzy, and the medium so-so. Really disappointed with all the "hype" around it. But when connected to the UDP-1, completely different picture, I liked it very much. Less than my Prehead MkII but maybe the MPX3 would best it?

Conclusion? I need a better source/transport, like the UDP-1 but half price
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, I need to try the MPX3 and I look forward for the next Swiss meet.

Thanks again Marcel!
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 10:06 PM Post #14 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt
You can use my EMP until your amp arrives, if you like. Not that we have a second Mr. Ampless here. =o)

Cheers



Now, that's an offer I can hardly refuse. Thanks a lot Kurt! I'll get back to you about the amp because I still need to get the amp from Antonik that is still stuck at customs.
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 10:29 PM Post #15 of 23
Hey Saint.Panda and Swiss Team,

Fantastic reviews and nice photos too. You guys rock!

Thanks very much for the info; it was very well presented. I'm sure the CD3000 vs 650 comments will be ready by the many head-fiers who are always trying to figure out the differences and similarities of these two. It was also good to hear your report on the Singlepower and it's snergy with the phones.

Nice work!

Yada
 

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