ZMF Verite
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heliosphann

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So in zeos new burn in video. He burned in verite more and retested. He still thinks they have "no soundstage" and have harshness. Interesting....
Like a few people mentioned, there's quite a bit of subjectivity to this hobby and a lot of other variables which can lead to some interesting opinions.

That being said, I decided to do some A/B testing of the Verite/Aeolus just for hell of it. I had Verite pads on both headphones and used the THX AAA 789 amp since it's pretty neutral and I know Zeos also used it for his reviews.

The Aeolus does have a wider soundstage than the Verite, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. In fact the Aeolus has a more traditional presentation, whereas the Verite has a very holographic sounding presentation. I have quite a few reference tracks I use for soundstage/imaging/instrument separation and the Verite clearly outclasses the Aeolus on all of them. In particular the depth of soundstage and instrument separation are clearly on another level. The layering and specific positioning of instruments are much more pronounced on the Verite. I'm not ragging on the Aeolus in any way as it's quite impressive in it's own regard. I'm quite fond of it's sound and I still stand by one of my first impressions of the Aeolus. I posted in the Aeolus thread that it was probably the best bargain in open back headphones at its price point. But let's be honest, there's a reason why the Verite costs twice as much as the Aeolus. I always get a kick when people rave about the Senn 58x being as good as the 660s for a 1/3rd of the cost. The 58x is an incredible bargain at it's price, but technically it's nowhere near as good as the 660s. For what it's worth, Zeos was also one of those 58x believers...

As for the harshness, I didn't really ever get any from my pair of Vertie's. Compared to the Aeolus, the Verite will certainly reveal poorly recorded songs, so that could be a factor. It's also possible some of that harshness could be from his DAC/chain as well. Also I remember him talking about the lack of bass on the Vertie, which I found quite puzzling. In my comparison to the Aeolus, the bass quantity is very similar. The bass quality and bass impact are far superior on the Verite. On of my favorite things about the Verite is the almost planar-like bass speed with that lush dynamic driver punch. Now I do have the Pheasantwood's as opposed to his Silk's, but that shouldn't be a huge difference.

One of my test tracks is LCD Soundsystem's "Us v Them" and it sounded so good on the Verite I ended up listening to the entire Sound of Silver album. Ah, bliss.
 
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Like a few people mentioned, there's quite a bit of subjectivity to this hobby and a lot of other variables which can lead to some interesting opinions.

That being said, I decided to do some A/B testing of the Verite/Aeolus just for hell of it. I had Verite pads on both headphones and used the THX AAA 789 amp since it's pretty neutral and I know Zeos also used it for his reviews.

The Aeolus does have a wider soundstage than the Verite, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. In fact the Aeolus has a more traditional presentation, whereas the Verite has a very holographic sounding presentation. I have quite a few reference tracks I use for soundstage/imaging/instrument separation and the Verite clearly outclasses the Aeolus on all of them. In particular the depth of soundstage and instrument separation are clearly on another level. The layering and specific positioning of instruments are much more pronounced on the Verite. I'm not ragging on the Aeolus in any way as it's quite impressive in it's own regard. I'm quite fond of it's sound and I still stand by one of my first impressions of the Aeolus. I posted in the Aeolus thread that it was probably the best bargain in open back headphones at its price point. But let's be honest, there's a reason why the Verite costs twice as much as the Aeolus. I always get a kick when people rave about the Senn 58x being as good as the 660s for a 1/3rd of the cost. The 58x is an incredible bargain at it's price, but technically it's nowhere near as good as the 660s. For what it's worth, Zeos was also one of those 58x believers...

As for the harshness, I didn't really ever get any from my pair of Vertie's. Compared to the Aeolus, the Verite will certainly reveal poorly recorded songs, so that could be a factor. It's also possible some of that harshness could be from his DAC/chain as well. Also I remember him talking about the lack of bass on the Vertie, which I found quite puzzling. In my comparison to the Aeolus, the bass quantity is very similar. The bass quality and bass impact are far superior on the Verite. On of my favorite things about the Verite is the almost planar-like bass speed with that lush dynamic driver punch. Now I do have the Pheasantwood's as opposed to his Silk's, but that shouldn't be a huge difference.

One of my test tracks is LCD Soundsystem's "Us v Them" and it sounded so good on the Verite I ended up listening to the entire Sound of Silver album. Ah, bliss.

Thanks for this. I was assuming he had either the verite pads on or just got confused and used the wrong ones. I'm glad to hear the bass is "planar like". Speed is one of the main reasons I went for the verite.
 
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wazzupi

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I wonder which presentation is better for video game use because if the verite holographic presentation gives a competitive edge because along with dynamics accuracy and depth i don't see how it doesn't hold use for other things... like gaming, competitively.
 
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Mrstump5

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I wonder which presentation is better for video game use because if the verite holographic presentation gives a competitive edge because along with dynamics accuracy and depth i don't see how it doesn't hold use for other things... like gaming, competitively.
Yeah. This. Im a big gamer too and plan on using the verité to game also. Also why im always asking about soundstage. Aeolus wider than verite?????? That's concerning for me
 
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ProfFalkin

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Yeah. This. Im a big gamer too and plan on using the verité to game also. Also why im always asking about soundstage. Aeolus wider than verite?????? That's concerning for me
Which soundstage do you want? Orange or green?

sketch-1545711193931.png
 
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Monsterzero

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Which soundstage do you want? Orange or green?

....and that green one doesnt even show the very distinct sense of height in the staging either.
 
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Those are called properly set up speakers
:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Yeah, Jinxy nailed it.

I'll share a pet peeve of mine with you: All this talk of headphones and their ability to create a "sound stage" really irks me sometimes. Why? Because headphones just can't. Even the best. They can't. Sorry. I understand wanting to be able to pick up on positional queues on headphones for music or gaming, but that's entirely different than getting the impression that the music is actually being played on a stage in front of you by a real band.

If you want real, honest to god staging and imaging, get a good set of speakers. It's such a night and day difference as to make one seem like an entirely different thing, and not suitable for comparison. This is why I don't understand why so many people place so much importance on "sound stage" with headphones. If I could, I would kill the use of the word "sound stage" from the headphone glossary of terms forever.

Let me put it this way - When a headphone can properly place Rebecca Pigeon's voice floating 8 feet in front of you and about 4 feet above you, with the piano, violin/cello, guitar, percussion all spread across an invisible stage behind her as they play Spanish Harlem... well, then come talk to me about sound stage in headphones. Then I'll reconsider.

(Yes, I'm aware of the Smyth A16.)

Mini-rant over. Thx.
 
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Yeah, Jinxy nailed it.

I'll share a pet peeve of mine with you: All this talk of headphones and their ability to create a "sound stage" really irks me sometimes. Why? Because headphones just can't. Even the best. They can't. Sorry. I understand wanting to be able to pick up on positional queues on headphones for music or gaming, but that's entirely different than getting the impression that the music is actually being played on a stage in front of you by a real band.

If you want real, honest to god staging and imaging, get a good set of speakers. It's such a night and day difference as to make one seem like an entirely different thing, and not suitable for comparison. This is why I don't understand why so many people place so much importance on "sound stage" with headphones. If I could, I would kill the use of the word "sound stage" from the headphone glossary of terms forever.

Let me put it this way - When a headphone can properly place Rebecca Pigeon's voice floating 8 feet in front of you and about 4 feet above you, with the piano, violin/cello, guitar, percussion all spread across an invisible stage behind her as they play Spanish Harlem... well, then come talk to me about sound stage in headphones. Then I'll reconsider.

(Yes, I'm aware of the Smyth A16.)

Mini-rant over. Thx.
I tend to agree. It’s not a ‘real’ stage. Maybe a better term is ‘sound space’. I like headphones that don’t overcrowd your head with music all at once. That give the different frequencies and instruments and vocals space to breathe, rather than feel like they’re all sitting right between your ears. Basically the opposite of congested. It’s not stage in the same way the word is used to describe music with speakers, and anyone who thinks that it is should probably look to change their medication :p
 
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I've heard it called headstage, so I like to use that phrase... I honestly have a hard time with soundstage on speakers as well.

That being said, I look for a sound that isn't claustrophobic, doesn't feel too confined. Beyond that, it doesn't matter too much to me.

I haven't heard the Verite yet, though I plan to at CanJam.
 
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