[TheMiddleSky]

Wow! They look amazing. But a bit out of my pricerange for iems...

Did you find any in midfi range? Say up to $1300-ish?

not exactly the same, but I think rather has a little bit similarity: Sony IER M9

 

[M-83]

Is Vérité Closed to "fast" for the Feliks Echo?

 

[Hamlap]

not exactly the same, but I think rather has a little bit similarity: Sony IER M9

Oh oh oh! I have had these on the list too, when reading a couple of reviews here.

Now: where can I get these in Europe...

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Oh oh oh! I have had these on the list too, when reading a couple of reviews here.

Now: where can I get these in Europe...

The other alternative is MMR Gae Bolg, as it also sound buttery smooth, full body kind of sound. Compare to Sony, MMR is a little bit more to neutral presentation though, a little drier and less punchy on the bass side. Also, I think it's harder to get in europe haha.

 

[Hamlap]

The other alternative is MMR Gae Bolg, as it also sound buttery smooth, full body kind of sound. Compare to Sony, MMR is a little bit more to neutral presentation though, a little drier and less punchy on the bass side. Also, I think it's harder to get in europe haha.

Thanks! I'll look into that one too!

The M9 is hard to get too, sadly.

 

[Monsterzero]

Is Vérité Closed to "fast" for the Feliks Echo?

Im not sure I understand your question. Does the Echo have an inherent sluggish response, or is it overly syrupy regardless of tube combo?

 

[M-83]

Im not sure I understand your question. Does the Echo have an inherent sluggish response, or is it overly syrupy regardless of tube combo?

I've heard that Echo may be more suited to say Atticus or Eikon as it's generally smooth and laid back, whereas vérité is faster in terms of speed/attack and therefore may be suited to a different amp.

For me, Atticus is a bit too warm and dry and not resolved enough for the EDM and complex electronica I listen to.

 

[Monsterzero]

I've heard that Echo may be more suited to say Atticus or Eikon as it's generally smooth and laid back, whereas vérité is faster in terms of speed/attack and therefore may be suited to a different amp.

For me, Atticus is a bit too warm and not resolved enough for the EDM and complex electronica I listen to.

Interesting. I have not heard the Echo so perhaps you're correct. However it has been my experience with OTL amps (Ive owned three) that the tubes you roll will play a large part in the way the music is presented. Granted some OTL amps allow the tubes to shine thru more than others do, and some tubes will sound different from amp to amp, so I'm speaking in general terms.

Have you tried asking in the Echo thread?

EDIT: I understand your point on the Atticus, which was the first ZMF headphone I owned. The VC and Atticus both share the ZMF house sound, but the VC is is much more revealing, with far less decay than the Atticus.

So you own the Echo and Atticus and are contemplating getting the VC? Have you tried tube rolling in the Echo yet?

 

[M-83]

Interesting. I have not heard the Echo so perhaps you're correct. However it has been my experience with OTL amps (Ive owned three) that the tubes you roll will play a large part in the way the music is presented. Granted some OTL amps allow the tubes to shine thru more than others do, and some tubes will sound different from amp to amp, so I'm speaking in general terms.

Have you tried asking in the Echo thread?

EDIT: I understand your point on the Atticus, which was the first ZMF headphone I owned. The VC and Atticus both share the ZMF house sound, but the VC is is much more revealing, with far less decay than the Atticus.

So you own the Echo and Atticus and are contemplating getting the VC? Have you tried tube rolling in the Echo yet?

Thanks for your message. The Feliks Echo is my first OTL (having been used to tube hybrids previously). I've recently started to roll tubes after I thought stock tubes were linear and a bit polite. I stuck a couple of 1962 Bugle Boys in it and that improved the sound, and I have just put in a couple of Mullard CV5358 ECC88 tubes to try.

I am not sure if I'm describing this very well, but I find Atticus very busy/noisy in terms of boosted mid bass (which I can find fatiguing) and the mids themselves can sound a little muddled to my ears with nowhere near the space/separation that I'm used to with my Alpha Prime planars. I just dont get emotionally connected to the music as I do with the Primes either. They music plays, and nothing grabs my attention. I may well be looking at this and/or explaining it all wrong but this is my feeling to-date.

I was recommended to try Verite Open, which was suggested as a more suited HP for me.

 

[Monsterzero]

I stuck a couple of 1962 Bugle Boys in it and that improved the sound, and I have just put in a couple of Mullard CV5358 ECC88 tubes to try.

Nice tubes, though im going to guess the Mullards will add even more warmth to the equation, which isnt what you want. Mullards and RCAs typically tend to be amongst the warmest and most gooey sounding tubes out there. Great tubes for brighter headphones, like the HD800 and OG Beyer T1, but not for the Atticus.

I would suggest looking into some Sylvania and Telefunken tubes for a better shot at toning down the thump and adding some sparkle to the treble and a more forward sounding midrange.

You can also roll pads on all ZMF headphones to try and pinpoint the sound signature you're after.

I am not sure if I'm describing this very well, but I find Atticus very busy/noisy in terms of boosted mid bass (which I can find fatiguing)

You're describing it fine. The Atticus is a very thumpy, fun sounding headphone. That midbass thump can linger too long( known as decay) which can muddy up transients and detail.

I felt the same way with the Atticus, especially with faster sub-genres of metal. Helluva lot of fun for slower metal and classic rock though.

I was recommended to try Verite Open, which was suggested as a more suited HP for me.

I have both, and yes both are quite good for electronica/EDM/trance/house. I prefer the VC over the VO for these genres, but if space and air is the most important aspect to you, then the VO is probably going to be what you're looking for. Understand the VC has great air and space, esp for a closed back, but the VO being an open back will naturally give you more.

 

[erics75]

Thanks for your message. The Feliks Echo is my first OTL (having been used to tube hybrids previously). I've recently started to roll tubes after I thought stock tubes were linear and a bit polite. I stuck a couple of 1962 Bugle Boys in it and that improved the sound, and I have just put in a couple of Mullard CV5358 ECC88 tubes to try.

I am not sure if I'm describing this very well, but I find Atticus very busy/noisy in terms of boosted mid bass (which I can find fatiguing) and the mids themselves can sound a little muddled to my ears with nowhere near the space/separation that I'm used to with my Alpha Prime planars. I just dont get emotionally connected to the music as I do with the Primes either. They music plays, and nothing grabs my attention. I may well be looking at this and/or explaining it all wrong but this is my feeling to-date.

I was recommended to try Verite Open, which was suggested as a more suited HP for me.

Are you finding the mids on the Atticus too thick and bassy? Too much warmth? I have the Atticus and just sold my Prime, so i'm very familiar with them. The Primes have a much less forward midrange, with more upper mids/lower treble presence. This leads to an airier and less congested or hazy presentation. The Atticus easily resolves as much information as the Prime (more imo), but it's thick midrange and rolled off highs give it the appearance it's not. Does that sound like what you're struggling with, with the Atticus? I'm just trying to fully understand the issue to help.

If that is the issue, then yes a Verite model, or even and Auteur or Eikon would help alleviate it. All those models have less mid bass, and more treble extension. The Eikon is still quite bassy, but it's bass is centered more in the sub bass, with noticeably more air than the Atticus. The Auteur is the most neutral of the bunch, and my personal favorite. Both Verite models are in between the Atticus and Auteur in terms of warmth, and also offer less congested mids and noticeably more air.

The closest headphone to the Primes in the ZMF lineup imo would be one of the Verite models, or the Auteur. The Verites will be just a touch warmer than the Prime, and the Auteur a touch cooler. But both are pretty close overall. Both those will play better with your Echo than the Atticus. The Atticus is inherently warm, as is the Echo. The combo I found to be a bit too much for me. But my Auteur (didn't have a Verite at the time) played wonderfully with it. The slight warmth of the Echo paired beautifully with the neutral Auteur. I was surprised how much I liked that combination, as at that time I had a strong preference for my Atticus.

 

[M-83]

Nice tubes, though im going to guess the Mullards will add even more warmth to the equation, which isnt what you want. Mullards and RCAs typically tend to be amongst the warmest and most gooey sounding tubes out there. Great tubes for brighter headphones, like the HD800 and OG Beyer T1, but not for the Atticus.

I would suggest looking into some Sylvania and Telefunken tubes for a better shot at toning down the thump and adding some sparkle to the treble and a more forward sounding midrange.

You can also roll pads on all ZMF headphones to try and pinpoint the sound signature you're after.

You're describing it fine. The Atticus is a very thumpy, fun sounding headphone. That midbass thump can linger too long( known as decay) which can muddy up transients and detail.

I felt the same way with the Atticus, especially with faster sub-genres of metal. Helluva lot of fun for slower metal and classic rock though.


I have both, and yes both are quite good for electronica/EDM/trance/house. I prefer the VC over the VO for these genres, but if space and air is the most important aspect to you, then the VO is probably going to be what you're looking for. Understand the VC has great air and space, esp for a closed back, but the VO being an open back will naturally give you more.

Yeah both are great tubes. Upon having placed the Mullard tubes in, the worst of the mid bass has gone, which is a step in the right direction and reminiscent of some Amperex ECC88's in my Lyr 2 (which I love).

I did used to have a set of Tungsram 6922 tubes that I used in a Mjolnir 2 a while back. Dan Clark recommended them to me specifically for EDM. I have just ordered this identical looking pair of tubes - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264963016380 .

To be honest, I'm not really interested in pad rolling. I'd rather get as close to what I'm looking for in the headphone without resorting to pad rolling.

Yes the way you have described the mid-bass is exactly what I'm trying to articulate. I also have to turn the volume down on the Echo to stop my hears from hurting after 30 mins or so of listening.

I had HD650 many yrs back and didn't like it (felt it was thin - which I appreciate is not how most would find it), though for a while I did enjoy Philips Fidelio X2. So, I've had mixed experiences with open HPs.

Atticus is good for music like this at low volumes (Clem Leek is a favourite of mine) - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...002803JQC&ref=dm_sh_8817-4ee0-df98-ce52-61de7

But not so good for me with stuff like this (too intimate, not resolving enough, decay far too long, lacking in "slam" with regard to sub bass) - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...07CPRG7CW&ref=dm_sh_92d7-97ce-796b-fa72-525f0

On the Chicane track with the Primes, the sound stage is wider, and the music just kind of dances around you - it's quite holographic.

I typically favour closed HPs for electronica/EDM/trance/house, but in a way I feel about Atticus a little like I did about Denon D2000 in terms of bass and fatigue.

 

[M-83]

Are you finding the mids on the Atticus too thick and bassy? Too much warmth? I have the Atticus and just sold my Prime, so i'm very familiar with them. The Primes have a much less forward midrange, with more upper mids/lower treble presence. This leads to an airier and less congested or hazy presentation. The Atticus easily resolves as much information as the Prime (more imo), but it's thick midrange and rolled off highs give it the appearance it's not. Does that sound like what you're struggling with, with the Atticus? I'm just trying to fully understand the issue to help.

If that is the issue, then yes a Verite model, or even and Auteur or Eikon would help alleviate it. All those models have less mid bass, and more treble extension. The Eikon is still quite bassy, but it's bass is centered more in the sub bass, with noticeably more air than the Atticus. The Auteur is the most neutral of the bunch, and my personal favorite. Both Verite models are in between the Atticus and Auteur in terms of warmth, and also offer less congested mids and noticeably more air.

The closest headphone to the Primes in the ZMF lineup imo would be one of the Verite models, or the Auteur. The Verites will be just a touch warmer than the Prime, and the Auteur a touch cooler. But both are pretty close overall. Both those will play better with your Echo than the Atticus. The Atticus is inherently warm, as is the Echo. The combo I found to be a bit too much for me. But my Auteur (didn't have a Verite at the time) played wonderfully with it. The slight warmth of the Echo paired beautifully with the neutral Auteur. I was surprised how much I liked that combination, as at that time I had a strong preference for my Atticus.

Yes - I find the Atticus mids too much to the point I have to have the volume on really low or my ears ache - and yes compared to Prime the mids seem fuzzy and congested. I also feel that the primes are faster (I guess less decay) and Atticus is almost lazy by comparison with EDM. I can listen to any genre on the Primes, and they are almost spot on (could do with a little more sub bass) with all genres, whereas with Atticus, I only really enjoy with Acoustic music (which I don't listen to anywhere near as much as EDM/Trance/House or pop). I think the Primes have a little lushness to them which I really enjoy, and Atticus to me is dryer.

From what you've said, I think the VO or VC are most suited to me. I certainly wouldn't wish to go any cooler than Prime, so Auteur is probably out on that basis - although I do appreciate what you are saying in terms of matching the warmth of the Echo.

I'm certainly interested in knowing what the Verite open is like, which I hope would complement the Primes nicely (I doubt I'll ever sell the primes).

This is the kind of music I adore with the Primes (track is called Quiet Earth) - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...003C73OYW&ref=dm_sh_44c3-93ca-b7cb-a653-2171e

Edit: It may be worth mentioning that I'm using Prime with Lyr 2 and Modi Multibit, which is quite different to Modi Multibit & Echo for use with Atticus.

 

[M-83]

I just would like to say... I love this community - I really appreciate the help, advice & assistance that people are so willing to provide.

 

[erics75]

Yes - I find the Atticus mids too much to the point I have to have the volume on really low or my ears ache - and yes compared to Prime the mids seem fuzzy and congested. I also feel that the primes are faster (I guess less decay) and Atticus is almost lazy by comparison with EDM. I can listen to any genre on the Primes, and they are almost spot on (could do with a little more sub bass) with all genres, whereas with Atticus, I only really enjoy with Acoustic music (which I don't listen to anywhere near as much as EDM/Trance/House or pop). I think the Primes have a little lushness to them which I really enjoy, and Atticus to me is dryer.

From what you've said, I think the VO or VC are most suited to me. I certainly wouldn't wish to go any cooler than Prime, so Auteur is probably out on that basis - although I do appreciate what you are saying in terms of matching the warmth of the Echo.

I'm certainly interested in knowing what the Verite open is like, which I hope would complement the Primes nicely (I doubt I'll ever sell the primes).

This is the kind of music I adore with the Primes (track is called Quiet Earth) - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...003C73OYW&ref=dm_sh_44c3-93ca-b7cb-a653-2171e

Edit: It may be worth mentioning that I'm using Prime with Lyr 2 and Modi Multibit, which is quite different to Modi Multibit & Echo for use with Atticus.

The Verite would definitely be closest to the prime in terms of speed and dynamics. On the echo it’s going to have a more organic and warmer sound to it. On the Lyr it’s going to be brighter and faster. One worry I have is your tastes just might crave planar drivers more, and no ZMF will truly satisfy. They have a delivery that’s just different from dynamics, even the fast metal coated drivers like the Verite. Only way to find out though is to try