Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread
Aug 21, 2014 at 4:56 PM Post #4,186 of 6,085

luisdent

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  <very nice pictures>
 
After some exhaustive tip rolling, I realized that this IEM's, weirdly suffer from good seal. If you get a really good, tight seal, they are going to sound pretty mediocre and boring. A more shallow fit will reveal the best of them. So, after trying with Hybrids, Meelec Double Flange, normal ones, stock ones...I needed something with a "worse" seal and pretty small or something due to my small ears. I found that this tips, from crappy earphones, that are pretty flimsy and have a wide bore, and they don't even fit "properly" (They are loose on the bore part) gave me the easiest fit, and the best sound. Curious, huh?

 
Others have been noticing this as well. Here's a simple non-destructive mod that causes a slight amount of leakage with any tips you like and really benefits the Tenores.

 
That mod is horrible for me. It makes my tenores sound hollow and just plain bad. I tried it with a much thinner piece of paper to minimize leakage and it was better, but still not good. All it does it break the seal for me instead of just lessing the bass. This causes scooped out frequencies in the mids for me too. I find the depth is more critical for me personally. Shallow is better with any tips. Perhaps if there was a much small venting amount it would be better? Or if your tenore is uber bassy maybe, but even then it would affect more than I prefer.
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 6:37 PM Post #4,187 of 6,085

oMalakai

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Others have been noticing this as well. Here's a simple non-destructive mod that causes a slight amount of leakage with any tips you like and really benefits the Tenores.

 
Hey, gonna try that later, thanks!
 
Quote:
   
That mod is horrible for me. It makes my tenores sound hollow and just plain bad. I tried it with a much thinner piece of paper to minimize leakage and it was better, but still not good. All it does it break the seal for me instead of just lessing the bass. This causes scooped out frequencies in the mids for me too. I find the depth is more critical for me personally. Shallow is better with any tips. Perhaps if there was a much small venting amount it would be better? Or if your tenore is uber bassy maybe, but even then it would affect more than I prefer.

 
I don't know, the problem for me is not the bass, it's the highs, mids, and soundstage. If I use a deeper, tight seal, high extension is worse, worse soundstage and overall, mediocre sound. I need to a get a loose seal to achieve the best sound.
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 9:53 PM Post #4,188 of 6,085

oMalakai

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Works great the mod for me now, at least now I can get the perfect seal really easy. Before this I had to be careful to not push them past a certain point, because that would made them sound weird, and also, make a vacuum-seal that was annoying. Btw, I was testing the bass handling capacities of the Tenores and well, after some silly testing involving the Mach3 Bass of Cowon, and Viper Audio app, I ended up with a headache and a bit dizzy
basshead.gif

 
Aug 21, 2014 at 10:17 PM Post #4,191 of 6,085

luisdent

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Others have been noticing this as well. Here's a simple non-destructive mod that causes a slight amount of leakage with any tips you like and really benefits the Tenores.

 
Hey, gonna try that later, thanks!
 
Quote:
   
That mod is horrible for me. It makes my tenores sound hollow and just plain bad. I tried it with a much thinner piece of paper to minimize leakage and it was better, but still not good. All it does it break the seal for me instead of just lessing the bass. This causes scooped out frequencies in the mids for me too. I find the depth is more critical for me personally. Shallow is better with any tips. Perhaps if there was a much small venting amount it would be better? Or if your tenore is uber bassy maybe, but even then it would affect more than I prefer.

 
I don't know, the problem for me is not the bass, it's the highs, mids, and soundstage. If I use a deeper, tight seal, high extension is worse, worse soundstage and overall, mediocre sound. I need to a get a loose seal to achieve the best sound.

 
I agree about that, but for me it isn't a "vented" seal that fixes it, it's a shallow gentle fit. But no air can be leaking or it sounds completely off to me. This might vary for different people though. I personally feel that if you need to create a vented ear tip and really finagle with the fit then that isn't a great earphone. I'm not saying I don't do things like that to get great sound. Great sound is what matters most to me. However, it makes me think less of an iem if the best sound can't be achieved by simply using them as intended.
 
And these aren't even consistent "hacks" or "mods". But it is what it is I suppose, and we're stuck with the variations and flaws. But when they sound good they sure do sound good. :p
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 10:18 PM Post #4,192 of 6,085

oMalakai

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  i just ordered these today. what kind of tips are recommended other than the meelec double flanges? i have auvio and sony hybrids available to me already.

 
 
I didn't like how it sounded with the Hybrids. Sounded dull and highs lose their sparkle, and soundstage was smaller. Using the stock ones with the vent mod now...I think that you just should try what fits you better, or what sounds better to you. IMO, the stock tips aren't bad.
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 10:22 PM Post #4,194 of 6,085

oMalakai

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I agree about that, but for me it isn't a "vented" seal that fixes it, it's a shallow gentle fit. But no air can be leaking or it sounds completely off to me. This might vary for different people though. I personally feel that if you need to create a vented ear tip and really finagle with the fit then that isn't a great earphone. I'm not saying I don't do things like that to get great sound. Great sound is what matters most to me. However, it makes me think less of an iem if the best sound can't be achieved by simply using them as intended.
 
And these aren't even consistent "hacks" or "mods". But it is what it is I suppose, and we're stuck with the variations and flaws. But when they sound good they sure do sound good. :p

 
Well, now that you say it, it's not exactly a seal where air is leaking, but if I push them a bit further than the "sweet zone", the air pressure, and the vacuum on my ears feels reeeally uncomfortable and even painful, asides from the mediocre sound. Whatever, at least with the "vent mod" I just push them firmly on my ears, and it's done. No more annoying vaccuum.
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 11:39 PM Post #4,195 of 6,085

james444

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  I agree about that, but for me it isn't a "vented" seal that fixes it, it's a shallow gentle fit. But no air can be leaking or it sounds completely off to me. This might vary for different people though. I personally feel that if you need to create a vented ear tip and really finagle with the fit then that isn't a great earphone. I'm not saying I don't do things like that to get great sound. Great sound is what matters most to me. However, it makes me think less of an iem if the best sound can't be achieved by simply using them as intended.

 
No prob, if it doesn't work for you, simply let it be... just saying front and back venting is a common way to tune DD based IEMs, nothing wrong about that.
 
As for the bolded part, well it's a fact that people have different preferences, listening habits and HRTFs. How about all the filter swapping and EQing posts in the ER4S thread, does that make them lesser IEMs?
wink.gif

 
  Well, now that you say it, it's not exactly a seal where air is leaking, but if I push them a bit further than the "sweet zone", the air pressure, and the vacuum on my ears feels reeeally uncomfortable and even painful, asides from the mediocre sound. Whatever, at least with the "vent mod" I just push them firmly on my ears, and it's done. No more annoying vaccuum.


I've learned that air pressure and a vacuum seal can be a big issue for some people, ranging from annoying to painful. I personally don't have this problem, but for me, if the ear canal's air pressure is exactly equal to the outside, perceived transparency is enhanced and soundstage gains a nice open feel.
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 11:48 PM Post #4,196 of 6,085

cloudyDay

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I've been using my carbo basso for a little over a year now and I have zero complaints. I haven't had the opportunity to compare it to another pair of IEM headphones so it still sounds great to me. I'm sure there are aspects of the sound quality that could be improved by moving up in quality/tier. 
 
Anyway does anyone know where I can purchase OEM carbo basso tips? I let my sister borrow my carbo basso for a while and she lost one of the tips... I was using the MEelectronics double flange tips, but I preferred the original tips as they feel more comfortable to me. I'm currently using an original medium tip and an original small tip. This works out okay as my right ear canal is smaller than my left. I'd still prefer to have both original medium tips though. I read in this thread that the sony hybrid tips were a good replacement as well. Thoughts?
 
Aug 21, 2014 at 11:50 PM Post #4,197 of 6,085

gnarlsagan

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No prob, if it doesn't work for you, simply let it be... just saying front and back venting is a common way to tune DD based IEMs, nothing wrong about that.

As for the bolded part, well it's a fact that people have different preferences, listening habits and HRTFs. How about all the filter swapping and EQing posts in the ER4S thread, does that make them lesser IEMs? :wink:


I'd say yes. We're pretty honest about the (few) shortcomings of the ER4S.
 
Aug 22, 2014 at 1:34 AM Post #4,198 of 6,085

MuZo2

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Hey, gonna try that later, thanks!

I don't know, the problem for me is not the bass, it's the highs, mids, and soundstage. If I use a deeper, tight seal, high extension is worse, worse soundstage and overall, mediocre sound. I need to a get a loose seal to achieve the best sound.

Like mh1 they should be shallow inserted. Mh1 designer had confirmed that fr of mh1 is designed for shallow insertion.
 
Aug 22, 2014 at 6:37 AM Post #4,199 of 6,085

zest

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I agree about that, but for me it isn't a "vented" seal that fixes it, it's a shallow gentle fit. But no air can be leaking or it sounds completely off to me. This might vary for different people though. I personally feel that if you need to create a vented ear tip and really finagle with the fit then that isn't a great earphone. I'm not saying I don't do things like that to get great sound. Great sound is what matters most to me. However, it makes me think less of an iem if the best sound can't be achieved by simply using them as intended.
 
And these aren't even consistent "hacks" or "mods". But it is what it is I suppose, and we're stuck with the variations and flaws. But when they sound good they sure do sound good. :p

I agree with you, insertion depth is much more important, mine was wrong in the beginning and I couldn't get enough sub-bass.
 
Quote:
   
 
I didn't like how it sounded with the Hybrids. Sounded dull and highs lose their sparkle, and soundstage was smaller. Using the stock ones with the vent mod now...I think that you just should try what fits you better, or what sounds better to you. IMO, the stock tips aren't bad.

Sony Hybrid clones work for me.
blink.gif

 
Aug 22, 2014 at 8:11 AM Post #4,200 of 6,085

SilverEars

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Regarding pressure, TG334 performed the best when fully sealed with a set of silicone tips.  It's BA with no vent and Tenores are microdynamic with a venting system, which would most likely need a flow of air(obviously since it's a vented system) vs BA.  Anybody have a diagram showing how the air flows through a microdynamic?
 
Did Rin ever do a tip analysis focusing on the seal?  Also the bore diameter?  Bore diameter could be related to the gain study he did, but this study focused on horn type iem outlets that provide gain and reduces treble peaks.
 

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