Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread
Jul 27, 2014 at 10:17 AM Post #3,886 of 6,085

SkiesOfAzel

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I'm speaking strictly of imbalance though.
 
Vacuum sealed earphones can sometimes restrict the movement of air, and hence vibration/sound, on the tympanic membrane. Vented iems relieve that pressure, but sealed iems do not. If your ears cannot naturally relieve that pressure, then the way you perceive sound will be different.
 
Foam tips circumvent the issue because they do not seal in the same way that silicone tips do. They seal by occluding the ear canal without having to induce any suction.
 
Either way, I'm just sharing my 2c and what's worked for me with iems like the Tenore, FitEar TG334, Noble 6, ER4S, HF5, and others like them.
 
Hope it helps someone.

 
Yeah mate, i am not disagreeing with you.  I don't doubt that some members might confuse vacuum seal issues with hardware failure, but  when people like @gnarlsagan that also have experience with Ety iems complain about channel imbalance, i reasonably conclude that they are actually describing a h/w fault.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 10:21 AM Post #3,887 of 6,085

shotgunshane

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I think it's a test that needs to be carried out by someone with the issue. Even though they might not feel or hear the vacuum seal, we could at least then rule that out, if they got it with foam. Actually vacuum pressure makes more sense to me than moisture. Vacuum pressure will cause the driver to invert and affect performance easily. I use a soundmagic e10 to do yard work and for 3 years there's never been a moisture related issue.

Edit: and after seeing james444's breakdown of the Tenore, pressurization seems logical.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 2:11 PM Post #3,888 of 6,085

james444

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I think it's a test that needs to be carried out by someone with the issue. Even though they might not feel or hear the vacuum seal, we could at least then rule that out, if they got it with foam. Actually vacuum pressure makes more sense to me than moisture. Vacuum pressure will cause the driver to invert and affect performance easily. I use a soundmagic e10 to do yard work and for 3 years there's never been a moisture related issue.

Edit: and after seeing james444's breakdown of the Tenore, pressurization seems logical.

 
X2 on that test, either use foam tips or try this mod with silicon tips. If TTS persists, we can rule out a vacuum seal issue.
 
Still, I'd rather put my money on moisture condensation as possible cause for TTS. First of all, I agree with SkiesOfAzel that experienced members will easily be able to identify a vacuum seal. But my main reason being, that similar "sudden volume drop issues" have been reported with the EPH100 (IIRC) and early M1H batches, both of which are using 6mm microdrivers akin to those in the Tenores. I'd particularly like to call your attention to this post:
 
I mentioned this before when several member try to mod the filter, but it is worth to bring up the topic again - early MH1 has issue on moisture condensation inside the earpeice (warm body meets cold aluminium) that causes this issue. That's why they added a layer of moisture barrier (the white mesh filter) to prevent it from happening.

 
MH1:

 
Now, throw in the fact that the Tenores have only a very thin protective mesh and no additional filter or moisture barrier, and I'd think that my theory may be more than just a wild guess. (Btw, note that your Soundmagic E10 are using significantly different 10mm drivers, which may not be prone to condensation issues at all.)
 
Anyway, the real litmus test would be to keep a TTS-prone pair of Tenores in a dry place until they're reliably functioning. Then remove the mesh with a needle, put a thin layer of cotton wool (or similar, to act as a moisture barrier) inside the nozzle and put the mesh back on. If TTS is gone for good, that would be the ultimate proof.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 2:25 PM Post #3,889 of 6,085

Ap616

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X2 on that test, either use foam tips or try this mod with silicon tips. If TTS persists, we can rule out a vacuum seal issue.
 
Still, I'd rather put my money on moisture condensation as possible cause for TTS. First of all, I agree with SkiesOfAzel that experienced members will easily be able to identify a vacuum seal. But my main reason being, that similar "sudden volume drop issues" have been reported with the EPH100 (IIRC) and early M1H batches, both of which are using 6mm microdrivers akin to those in the Tenores. I'd particularly like to call your attention to this post:
 
 
MH1:

 
Now, throw in the fact that the Tenores have only a very thin protective mesh and no additional filter or moisture barrier, and I'd think that my theory may be more than just a wild guess. (Btw, note that your Soundmagic E10 are using significantly different 10mm drivers, which may not be prone to condensation issues at all.)
 
Anyway, the real litmus test would be to keep a TTS-prone pair of Tenores in a dry place until they're reliably functioning. Then remove the mesh with a needle, put a thin layer of cotton wool (or similar, to act as a moisture barrier) inside the nozzle and put the mesh back on. If TTS is gone for good, that would be the ultimate proof.

 
I agree with you James. I'm thinking along the lines of this but less technically. The logic fits. I don't know though...
I haven't exercised with mine. No tts. If it is moisture; environment would certainly play a factor as well as sweat me thinks. I also didn't burn them in at loudish volumes in case it was a driver issue not caused by moisture. No problems with my EPH when I had them either. 
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 2:28 PM Post #3,890 of 6,085

shotgunshane

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I would think a wet sponge in front of a driver might have a fairly large effect as well? I know Ety's lose volume when the front filter clogs up from moisture, etc over time.

I just don't see how it can be moisture when someone reports it happening within 5 minutes of insertion. But perhaps it hasn't dried from the previous session? Since there is very little foam in a Tenore (none in front), what are we proposing the moisture/condensation is doing to the driver?

Could you not have pressurization of a driver without noticeable vacuum seal? Basically a driver flex upon insertion and never bounces back due to enough pressure formed in the seal. Those are tiny holes in the front and back plates. Idk. I vote gnarlsagan to begin testing both theories immediately!
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 2:49 PM Post #3,892 of 6,085

SkiesOfAzel

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+2 
tongue.gif

Get to work gnarlsagan!
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM Post #3,893 of 6,085

waynes world

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  Seriously guys. There's a huge possibility that the channel imbalance that a lot of you are experiencing comes from the vacuum sealing nature of the Tenore. Silicon tips give me issues on all fully sealed iems. Use foam tips if you can, then check again if you're experiencing imbalance.
 
Not saying you're all crazy. It would just be a shame for you to trash a perfectly working earphone.

 
My first pair would exhibit TTS while in my ears (after a period of listening). In that case, I'd buy the theory of vacuum sealing causing the issue. But what was different about yesterday's occurrence with my replacement pair is that they exhibited TTS after a 1/2 hour duration of non-use and when putting them back in my ears (and I was putting them in my ears the same way I always do, so there was nothing different about that). So I don't know how vacuum sealing could have accounted for that. Regardless, I'm going to try some comply's on them for fun - I may like the SQ anyway. But, the nature of TTS is so sporadic and unpredictable that I might not notice a problem again for a few minutes, hours, days or weeks.
 
Fwiw, I've been using the stock medium sized silicone tips. As much as I often like the SQ associated with comply foam tips, I generally don't like to use them due to their fiddly nature to get inserted, and also because they make my ears itchy after a while. Also I suspect they wouldn't stand up to well to sweat if called for.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 4:05 PM Post #3,894 of 6,085

encoreAC

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I would say that people should just avoid the Tenore until the QC issues are resolved and buy the Havi B3 P1 instead, which people already prefer.
Not sure if dealing with this hassle would be worth it.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 4:21 PM Post #3,896 of 6,085

sfwalcer

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  How do the Tenores compare to the Xioami Pistons? Do the drivers on the tenores look like they can be taken apart for recabling?


^
Those piss poor Piss_tons don't even compare to the Sony MH1/C so you do the math.
 
They are ok for the price cuz the have a remote if you need things like that and you might like them if you dig an overly smooth warm/ slow bassy presentation but transparency, bass depth/ quality wise the cheapo $16 Sony MH1 creams those piss_tons.  The Sonys are still the budget-fi king for me that is only held bad by their awful cable sadly. :  (
 
But there are recables for that now so....
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 4:25 PM Post #3,897 of 6,085

encoreAC

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^
Those piss poor Piss_tons don't even compare to the Sony MH1/C so you do the math.
 
They are ok for the price cuz the have a remote if you need things like that and you might like them if you dig an overly smooth warm/ slow bassy presentation but transparency, bass depth/ quality wise the cheapo $16 Sony MH1 creams those piss_tons.  The Sonys are still the budget-fi king for me that is only held bad by their awful cable sadly. :  (
 
But there are recables for that now so....

To be fair the Sony MH1 are so good that people recable them for 100$+.
Not sure how they would compare to the likes of Ostry KC06,Tenore and Havi though.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM Post #3,898 of 6,085

zest

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I don't understand how we could have vacuum problem with Tenore, because air can flow gently, without constraints from the vent to the nozzle.
No vents doesn't mean IEMs are sealed.
 
Jul 27, 2014 at 4:47 PM Post #3,900 of 6,085

Ap616

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  But can anyone answer if the housing on the Tenores look like they can easily be seperated for a recabling job.

I think @james444 (and/or someone else) when he diy'd & had pictures said something about the possibility of that back a ways irrc. But maybe I'm wrong.
 

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