Zen Micro or Rio Karma for first purchase

[pretzelb]

I'm trying to decide on my first DAP and have worked it down to the Zen Micro and the Rio Karma. I've read most of the reviews but I've only been able to physically get my hands on a Micro. I can get either for around the same money (but the Karma isn't on sale at my favorite or most trusted websites). It seems like a classic battle between size (Micro) and storage (Karma).

Anyone have experience with both care to offer some advice on what else I should consider? Seems like when people like either one of these, they are very happy with their purchase. Since I probably will only buy one DAP I'd like to get it right the first time (well, until I need another one).

 

[firefox360]

For one thing, the Rio Karma has been discontinued by Rio. The Creative Micro seems to be pretty good, but the Karma seems to be getting raving reviews from audiophiles despite the hard drive issue from some people.

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Plain and simple you're comparing apples to oranges. The Micro is a 'micro' player, the Karma is a full-size DAP. Irregardless of what people may 'want' out of smaller players, the larger ones are just generally more feature-rich. This doesn't make the 'Micro' bad, it just means it is marketed towards a different market. Compare the 'Micro' to the Carbon or the Zen to the Karma, but crossing between the two is just going to be confusing.

I personally think the Karma is a heck of a deal at the places it is still available (Ubid still has some auctions), I believe Newegg may still be stocking it etc. I've had my Karma since the beginning (October 2003) wihtout any problems. Yes there have been arguably more than others, but given the cost of the player initially, and the declinining prices of replacement drives, you could still buy a Karma, have the drive die and bu a new one for generally less than other players.

http://www.mindknob.com/hack for more information on replacing the drive (a 20GB requires no modifications)


If you do go with the Karma I strongly recommend getting a screen protector and case for it, between the two you'll protect it from scratches and help protect the wheel which can also be prone to breaking. (mine has always been in a case and has easily survived being tossed in my backpacks, snowboarding, falling onto ice (post snowboarding), etc) Both are also available from http://www.mindknob.com (no I am not affliated with the site, but they have consistently provided good products and service at quite cheap prices)

 

[scorpian007]

I'd go for the Micro purely due to its tiny size and the fact that its a newer player, hence will be supported better.

 

[pretzelb]

Edvard - I do get the feeling it's apples and oranges but not having experience with a player, and not being able to physically hold both, all I'm left with is pictures and reviews.

The two units don't appear to be THAT much different in size - sure the Karma won't fit in an Altoids tin (man, Altoids should thank the Zen Micro) but it will still fit in a pocket. If a player fits in your pocket it seems small enough to be called portable by my definition. The features on the two are similar also. I think the Karma has some really nice options with the base unit, and it supports more formats, but nothing that leaps out to me (maybe others just not me). Lastly, I have yet to read that there is a CLEAR difference in sound between the two. To me, that's the key. While these two units may be different categories, if the sound isn't clearly different then it's hard for me to see them as apples and oranges. In my eyes, they're both small players it's just that one is very small and the other has a bigger hard drive. This is an overly general view from me but in the absense of a clear difference in audio quality or some major functionality it's all I'm left with.

I think my problem is that I don't have the requirements that each product is trying to target. I think the Karma is targeting those who want multiple formats while the Micro is clearly going for those looking for a very small player. The formats supported don't impress me that much and both seem pretty small. I don't think either product was targeted to someone like me.

It's a shame the Karma is being discontinued. Every review I read seems like it got a lot of things right. Ah well, thanks for the comments so far - it's appreciated.

 

[NiceCans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzelb The two units don't appear to be THAT much different in size - sure the Karma won't fit in an Altoids tin (man, Altoids should thank the Zen Micro) but it will still fit in a pocket. If a player fits in your pocket it seems small enough to be called portable by my definition.

The Karma is THICK, very thick to be put in a pocket. Yes it can be done, but you had better be wearing cargo pants or you will know it is there. IMO, while possible, not well suited to a pocket. If that is a criteria then you may wish to consider other players.

 

[Twombly]

I beg to differ. It fits reasonably well into a pocket. Then again, ladies' pants are tight as hell. How do you poor dears manage to breathe?!

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

I would say there is a fairly large difference in sound. First, the Karma has a much stronger internal amp than you'll find in any of the micro players (and even many full-size daps); second, the 5-band parametric EQ allows you to completely tailor the sound to whatever you prefer (the most flexible available); third, gapless playback allows you to hear the sound exactly as it was meant to be heard (great for live recordings, classical, and jazz); fourth, when the dock pulses to music it is really cool

 

[LFC_SL]

Micro now has firmware update: http://us.creative.com/support/downl...pe=0&details=1

 

[pretzelb]

After much mental anguish and suffering

I'm starting to understand the differences. I held the Micro again and looked at more pictures of the Karma and can imagine the differences. I can actually see why someone would get both. The Micro definitely seems like the "drop in the pocket / on the go" solution while the Karma, while still transportable, may be more of "take it with you / get situated / then listen" solution. The Karma can certainly be used on the go but I don't think that was it's intention like the Micro. The idea of having a 20gb jukebox at my desk at work is starting to grow on me. I think if the Karma were still being produced it would be an easier decision. Then again, I've been known to struggle over what to have for breakfast.

 

[darkninja67]

The Rio Karma is THE player if you are looking for audiophile sound and true gapless playback with support for ogg and FLAC.

If you can swing the cash the iAudio X5 is a great player. It equals or betters my Rio in terms of sound quality and loudness. A very impressive player. I now have a Rio Karma, a Rio Carbon and a 3G 40GB iPod collecting dust on my nightstand.

 

[pretzelb]

The X5 does look nice. On the one hand the USB Host interests me (not sure if it works with a Canon 10D) but on the other hand I get concerned with a unit that wants to have superior audio AND do other things - seems like it would be enough to concentrate on the audio aspect. It would at least make it easier for me to compare models.

Ultimately the price of the X5 is a bit much for my first purchase. I wanted to stay in the $200 range.

Side note - I almost bought a refurbished Karma on uBid but they were grabbed with instant buys while I went to the rest room. Maybe it's a sign.

 

[darkninja67]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzelb The X5 does look nice. On the one hand the USB Host interests me (not sure if it works with a Canon 10D) but on the other hand I get concerned with a unit that wants to have superior audio AND do other things - seems like it would be enough to concentrate on the audio aspect. It would at least make it easier for me to compare models. Ultimately the price of the X5 is a bit much for my first purchase. I wanted to stay in the $200 range. Side note - I almost bought a refurbished Karma on uBid but they were grabbed with instant buys while I went to the rest room. Maybe it's a sign.

a sign to get the X5. Sadly it is out of your price range.
The audio part of the X5 is great. It seems to do video as a sidenote as the screen is only 1.8". I bought it for superior audio playback and that is where it excels.