[Mehran]

Actually, it all depends on what you've been listening to or are used to. Also, ear training plays a big role. People from the production world like me who work on studio monitors in a studio space everyday and who like reference neutral signatures, be it Diffuse Field or Harman Target inspired, tend to like IEMs with good pinna gain/forward upper midrange. For me, those kinda IEMs have accurate and correct tonality of instruments and sound more natural to me, like real instruments do in real life. Also, the amount of pinna gain one likes and considers perfect is again a personal preference. On the other hand, IEMs like pre-2020 Andromeda which don't have much pinna gain, don't sound as natural in tonality to me. That doesn't mean they aren't fun or liked or have a massive fanbase, because they do! Not every IEM needs to be tuned close to reference and not every person is required to like reference signatures. The variety and flavours is what makes this hobby so interesting!

I've come across a couple of your posts and understood that you do not like a forward upper midrange presentation. That is completely fine because that is a preference you have and it is one that you should definitely consider when shortlisting IEMs. I'd recommend auditioning as many IEMs as you can and settle for the one you like most. If you're 100% happy and satisfied with one, it shouldn't matter what others think of your choice or how well or badly it was reviewed by reviewers.

Hope this helps.

I appreciate your input, preference is one thing. But instruments and vocals in real life sound a certain way. I am assuming then that no IEM or headphone can reproduce all instruments and vocals in natural and realistic way and there's always a compromise, am I right?
I listen to a lot of different kind of music mostly with vocals , so obviously it's important for me. I just have never heard Michael Jackson, George Michael , Robert Plant or anyone else sound so high pitched on any audio system like on something like the Dusk, Clairvoyance or Thieaudio L3. I highly doubt they sound like this in real life , so dry and emotionless.

 

[Animagus]

I appreciate your input, preference is one thing. But instruments and vocals in real life sound a certain way. I am assuming then that no IEM or headphone can reproduce all instruments and vocals in natural and realistic way and there's always a compromise, am I right?
I listen to a lot of different kind of music mostly with vocals , so obviously it's important for me. I just have never heard Michael Jackson, George Michael , Robert Plant or anyone else sound so high pitched on any audio system like on something like the Dusk, Clairvoyance or Thieaudio L3. I highly doubt they sound like this in real life , so dry and emotionless.

Which IEM do they sound most natural to you with?

 

[Mehran]

IMR Opus Mia & Semper sound the most natural, then OH10, Penon Orb and Blon Bl03 from the things I've heard .

 

[Animagus]

IMR Opus Mia & Semper sound the most natural, then OH10, Penon Orb and Blon Bl03 from the things I've heard .

I haven't heard the IMRs or the Orb but OH10 and BL03 have forward upper midrange presentation too. If you like these and the others not so much, it's fine! I'd say enjoy these and not worry as much about your impressions not aligning with other people for the others.

 

[Mehran]

I haven't heard the IMRs or the Orb but OH10 and BL03 have forward upper midrange presentation too. If you like these and the others not so much, it's fine! I'd say enjoy these and not worry as much about your impressions not aligning with other people for the others.

I sure enjoy them. The matter is when looking to buy new items and looking for impressions by different people and reviewers , not knowing you will have the same impressions as theirs, or even in the case of the Dusk ,wildly different.

 

[cr3ativ3]

A good friend of mine is selling his Zen . If Ure maybe interested have a look .

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-dunu-zen.953111/

It’s over my name , but not my iem .

 

[Scubadevils]

I sure enjoy them. The matter is when looking to buy new items and looking for impressions by different people and reviewers , not knowing you will have the same impressions as theirs, or even in the case of the Dusk ,wildly different.

For me being new to this level of spend and research* I've gone for on the basis of overall reviews being strong and described in a way I felt would suit my preference, some a success, others not so much. The ZEN was a leap of faith on the basis of the rep interaction on this forum, branding, initial feedback from @audio123 and gut feeling! - thankfully that was a winning but potentially risky formula as there were no full reviews at that point.

*old methods driven by bigger brand reviews such as Sennheiser on the tech sites and reviews on Amazon, an occasional lurker here too over the years. Up until recently, I had no idea about driver configuration etc... I often bought headphones in airports on the basis of brand recognition, price and maybe a WhatHifi 5 star logo!

 

[Dsnuts]

I know design-wise it's an apples and oranges thing but how do you like the MEST compared to the Zen? If I had to guess I would say they are more just different than one being better than the other. I'm so happy with the Zen I can't see buying anything else for a while but the MEST is something I've heard so much good about

MEST is indeed different. Both have excellent technical foundations for the sound but where the Zens excel is with its natural tonal balance. MEST has excellent imaging and even a more holographic stage but can come a bit lacking in the mids for some. Zen having more in the upper mids emphasis, vocals pop more on the Zens vs the MEST. MEST sounds a bit scooped out for the mids in comparison. You can tell they are a quad brid using multiple drivers and show strengths in a more dimensional presentation with a greater sense of depth vs the Zens. Zens have just a wide a stage as the MEST but depth is where the MEST shines and gives off that holographic sound stage effect due to the outstanding depth of the sound. Treble sounds a bit more forward on the MEST. Treble on the Zens can come off a bit reserved in comparison actually but again I don't find the treble lacking at all just not emphasized like a lot of higher end earphones.

Bass driver on the MEST is purposed for bass only it has a good amount of emphasis with a slower decay in the bass. A bit more thicker sounding and sub bass is really good on the MEST, but I give the speed factor to the Zens with a tighter impact. BAs for the MEST throws out imaging even better than the Zens but again not excatly as natural sounding. Has a large field effect to the sound and upper mids are not as forward I feel Zens are balanced better and has the better natural timbre between the two while MEST with its holographic stage and sharp imaging is what makes the MEST so appealing to most.

 

[Mehran]

For me being new to this level of spend and research* I've gone for on the basis of overall reviews being strong and described in a way I felt would suit my preference, some a success, others not so much. The ZEN was a leap of faith on the basis of the rep interaction on this forum, branding, initial feedback from @audio123 and gut feeling! - thankfully that was a winning but potentially risky formula as there were no full reviews at that point.

*old methods driven by bigger brand reviews such as Sennheiser on the tech sites and reviews on Amazon, an occasional lurker here too over the years. Up until recently, I had no idea about driver configuration etc... I often bought headphones in airports on the basis of brand recognition, price and maybe a WhatHifi 5 star logo!

The Clairvoyance and Dusk have received a lot of good reviews, yet I didn't like them. I think a lot times unfortunately, in this highly subjective hobby, for someone like me with not much experience , reviews can be misleading instead of helpful.

 

[Scubadevils]

The Clairvoyance and Dusk have received a lot of good reviews, yet I didn't like them. I think a lot times unfortunately, in this highly subjective hobby, for someone like me with not much experience , reviews can be misleading instead of helpful.

Indeed, no guarantee until you hear for yourself - and even at that, it can require tweaks etc, be it cable or tips. I would struggle to see how anyone could dislike the ZEN and reviews so far reflect that, I'm sure there will be outliers though...

 

[davidmolliere]

The Clairvoyance and Dusk have received a lot of good reviews, yet I didn't like them. I think a lot times unfortunately, in this highly subjective hobby, for someone like me with not much experience , reviews can be misleading instead of helpful.

I don't know the Clairvoyance or Dusk, always hard for reviewers to make sure people will find a good match to their preferences... I know I try to make it explicit what kind of preferences fit a given IEM but it's not always an easy task...

 

[Dsnuts]

Indeed, no guarantee until you hear for yourself - and even at that, it can require tweaks etc, be it cable or tips. I would struggle to see how anyone could dislike the ZEN and reviews so far reflect that, I'm sure there will be outliers though...

Oh man you can have the heavens open its gates for the sonic bliss an IEM can throw out. Your gonna get folks that will not like it. Lol. It happens with every single earphone and headphone we see on the threads here on headfi. Everyone has a preference so that plays a big roll

I think what is very nicely done on the Zen is it plays relatively safe. While there is coloration to the sonics it is the type that most actually enjoy in their music. A bit of enhancement to the bass, upper mids and a treble end that wont offend with a solid stage and technical basis. To me if you think about it that is what refinement should be about. Something that is versatile and agreeable to most. Imagine being the tuner for such an IEM and you have to please enthusiasts that tread this thread and around the world.

How you gonna tune your IEM? There is no way that is an easy task. Lol.

 

[Scubadevils]

An example for me was the E5000, generally great reviews and many towards a lot of my listening preferences. In some cases, they sounded incredible, others absolutely terrible and I had a rollercoaster of that for a few weeks, it was that and some other reasons I decided to set a higher bar and investigate up to about a €1k spend - I wanted something I could enjoy with any genre, comfortable, reputable brand, evidence of good customer service and ultimately something I'd be blown away by out of the box in every aspect - ZEN delivered and more. I see my IEM journey being less frequent higher spends as opposed to how I started which was a view I'd collect lower to mid cost and maybe a higher end at some point. Nothing wrong with either journey but having experienced the ZEN, I'd be reluctant to drop back too far - it's now very clearly my benchmark.

 

[cocolinho]

The Clairvoyance and Dusk have received a lot of good reviews, yet I didn't like them. I think a lot times unfortunately, in this highly subjective hobby, for someone like me with not much experience , reviews can be misleading instead of helpful.

I red some of your post and actually I agree with some of your thoughts.
With experience I know what I like and what I dislike, typically I hate (too) forward high mids like we see quite frequently now with IEMs following Harman target for example so most of the latest "hyped" IEMs won't pleased me. Latest disappointment : NF NM2+. Way too bright for me.
I have no problem with high extension though.
I'm still interested in these Zen but I'm concerned when I read some comments from some reviewers. Not sure they will please my ears.
Did you try something like oriolus mk 2, TG334, or andromeda 2020? Fibae black ? Ak t8ie mk2? sony m9? Earsonics Grace or even Empire Phantom?

 

[cr3ativ3]

The Clairvoyance and Dusk have received a lot of good reviews, yet I didn't like them. I think a lot times unfortunately, in this highly subjective hobby, for someone like me with not much experience , reviews can be misleading instead of helpful.

graphs can help to get a clue if an iem could be for you or not .