1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.

    Dismiss Notice


Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by rb2013, Mar 27, 2016.
1 2 3 4 5 6
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
  1. abartels
    DIYINHK has had a multichannel interface for a year or so (based on 16 core XU-216 512) which also can be used in stereo mode.
    So, when talking about processing power (and talking about the newest XMOS chips), this is the more powerful chip from the latest generation.
    Of course, there are several other chip versions, 10 - 12 - 16 and 32 cores available too.
    Above PCB design is without isolation, so not interesting enough for us, it's just informative meant.
    It's always the question if the more powerful devices are the better sounding ones. In this case I am not sure, it's more design related than chip related,
    but that's my 2 cents...
  2. roger7
    Here is LPS comparison including Teddy Pardo and mentioned Keces DC-116
  3. rb2013 Contributor

    Well good point Alex.  I think once I have a chance to do a close face-off in my main system of the F-1 vs the X-1 I will be able to say more.  They both use the same XU208 one with NDK SD clocks and a simpler design the other with the 'split' board design and USB isolation and Crystek CCHD-575 clocks.  So that's shed more light on the question.
    Then when the DIYinHK DXIO Pro4a arrives, I'm assuming with the XU208, that as a comparison as well.
    And some potential exciting news!  Someone PM'd with the possibly of lending me a Mutec MC-3+USB for a little trial.
    Now that would be stiff competition for the F-1 and X-1.  I need to study a little more about this $1000 DDC - but what I have seen so far - pretty impressive.  Built in Galvanic isolation, excellent clocks, with a port for an external atomic clock running at 10Mhz (and maybe other freq's).  I'm thinking this is the new top dog - price no object - DDC.

  4. rb2013 Contributor
    A little OT but interesting: Speaking of atomic clocks - reading through the 'uncurated' CA thread on the W4S Recovery - this link was posted -
    This company Audio Technology makes some neat gear- like a tubed DAC that can be ordered with a OXCO clock or a Rubidum atom clock.  The
    USB player​


    It's a USB only DAC - comes std with the generic TXCO JYEC clocks for 870 Euros, but for another 700 Euros can be ordered with OXCO clocks of their making.
    And for ANOTHER 2500 Euros with an ATOMIC clock.  A very nice Rubidium one!  This really has my interest.  To bad it's limited in inputs to only USB.
    But they do sell the Rubidum clock separately for 3650 Euros called the RCG-10:
    So here is the interesting part - they quote the phase noise numbers for all three clocks:  the TXCO, OXCO, and the Atomic - so to compare to the NDKSD and the CCHD- 575:
    Numbers in this order: Atomic Rubidum clock, OXCO, CCHD-575, NDK SD, TXCO JYEC (this is the 1st time I have seen accurate measurements for OEM JYEC TXCO clocks at 10Hz & 10kHz - these are often relabled 'Gustard', 'Melodious', 'Vanguard', etc...):
    10 Hz:  -120dB, -110dB, -100dB, -112dB, -90dB
    10KHz: -150dB, -140dB, -163dB, -156dB, -120dB
    Soooo the at 10Hz the Atomic and OXCO are clearly far superior to the TXCO's even the NDK and CCHD - BUT!...  
    At 10KHz the Crystek CCHD-575 crushes!  With the best reading by far -23dB better then the OXCO and -13dB better then the $4000 Rubidum clock.  The NDK SD is also excellent.  closer at 10Hz to the much more expensive alternatives - and not too far behind the CCHD at the high end.
    Reminder the X-1 uses the NDK SD's and the F-1 the CCHD-575's - the el cheapo JYEC TXCO are not in the same league with either.  Yet these are the clocks that the Gustard, Breeze, Melodious use.
    One note the Rubidum and OXCO clocks do have greater stability then the TXCO's: in decending order (all plus or minus) .000007ppm, 0.1ppm, 20ppm, 20ppm, 1ppm
    So these more expensive clocks have orders of magnitude greater stability.  And over time TXCO's have greater drift - Crystek quotes 3ppm the 1st yr, <1ppm after.
    Edit Correction - the NDK SD is better at 10Hz then both the OXCO and the CCHD-575.
  5. rb2013 Contributor
    Hey Alex, You are modding wisard - besides running an external DC connection any other mods you might suggest?  I'm already looking at replacing those 35V 100uf caps with Nichicons.
  6. rb2013 Contributor
    F-1 Review Update:
    Another long listening session last night at the 95Hr burnin mark.  Again ran all night with out a single unlock or freeze - that's like 4 days straight 24/7.  Same for the X-1 running in the office system - these have to be some of the most stable devices yet.
    The sound is definitely blooming - the changes I noticed last night (listening to mostly female vocals) is a growing delicacy to the sound - finesse with intricate soft passages.  Very pleasing - really outstanding for something in this price range.  I notice the tone growing richer and fuller - now wondering if the W4S Recovery will be needed - the Regen is just great.  What a amazing SQ - some who say DDC's don't really matter much - have never heard this baby.  I know my system is highly refined and I'm very familiar to it's sound - listening nightly reading while the wifey watches her Lifetime movies - I always say to myself 'I hope tonight is not another one of those husband murders the wife episodes!'.  Anyway I digress.
    I can hear distinct changes for the better with each passing day.
    So today I will run the Isotek burin routine all day - for more information on the Isotek burnin disk check this out.  It is designed to do a few things:
    While no fun to listen to  - I use it during every equipment burnin.

  7. b0bb
    Here is a miniature low power OCXO I am using with one of my DACs. Replaced the stock CCHD-575 which has superior  phase noise "on paper" by about 3-5dB @10Hz
    Made quite a large difference in the imaging, very similar to the huge soundstage expansion you described in one of your F-1 listening sessions.
    Bass was exceptionally deep, I am actually feeling the bass come up the chair thru the floor.
    (Martin Logan Summit + Velodyne HGS18, the -3dB@12Hz measured by REW)
  8. Caper
    I actually have that disc laying here and never been used before.
    Right now playing track 1 for small speakers and then going to play track 3.
    Never believed in that but since I have nothing much to do right now I can let it play [​IMG] 
  9. rb2013 Contributor

    So your DAC is set-up to handle a 100Mhz clock?  I replaced the crappy XO in my DAC60 mod project with a Vanguard TXCO that made a nice difference - then added a W4S Remedy with the CCHD-975 to the DAC60 - an even bigger step up.
    My DAC60 uses the R2R multi-bit PCM1704UK DACs - much less prone to clocking.  I see your DAC has the D-S Sabers.  The OXCO should make a bigger difference.  From what I understand the R2R DACs run multi-bits each clock cycle - the PCM1704 24-bit from the resistor ladder.  Where as the D-S DACS have to 're-create' those 24 bits from just 1-bit clocked a 256x per output sample.
    From the Audio Technologies website:
    From Mother of Tone article: http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
    R2R DACs:
    D-S DACs
    He uses the 32-bit AKM multi-segment D-S DAC (I believe the first 4 bits are R2R then D-S for the rest).  Alex Peychev of APL takes those 1st 4 R2R bits and runs 6 DACs per channel to create 24bit R2R hybrid design - that's what's in my APL DAC.
    Those OXCO's are very cool!
  10. rb2013 Contributor

    Well I don't know if makes a difference versus playing just music - but my audio OCD likes it! [​IMG]
    Speaking of Audio OCD - The W4S Recovery arrived today - so I swapped it in for the Regen.  7.5VDC LPS/Dc iPurifier - iPurifier2 in between the F-1 and the Recovery.
    Cold out of the box better then the Regen but by only a few percent - at least right now.  A tad more space and a touch wider sound stage.  No change in the tonal signature - maybe just a bit lighter on the vocals.  I say I do like it better then the Regen - and I'm sure after 200 hrs burnin - it will get better.
    Once the F-1 and X-1 finish their 200 hr run in will do some swapping around of USB gizmos and PS's.  Last piece of the puzzle a Curious 200mm USB cable for running between the DDC and Recovery or Regen.
    Note on this uncurated W4S Recovery thread on CA a lot of folks like the Intona - but a few have commented on compatibly issues.  And frequent firmware changes (which require sending the Intona back to Europe for updates).  I will sit this one out for the time being.
  11. Caper
    I think I will let you play with all your new toy´s and when you are done and decide what not to keep...pls mess me [​IMG]
    Pretty sure all those things not qualified in your system would be just fine here.
    I have been close to push down that buy button several times on the Intona but resisted so far.
    Just read that link and one guy is extremely impressed by it and the fact it sounds at it best solo, no other stuff connected.
    Would make things so much easier.
    I wounder if the standard version would do or do I have to get the industrial?
  12. rb2013 Contributor

    No audio difference from the std and the industrial.  Just a higher voltage spike protection.
    Yes - many like it - but some have had connection issues - like with the Berkeley Audio USB.
    And some have had issues with XMOS DDCs and the Recovery - no issues here with the F-1.  Note there has been a board revision on the Recovery - I have the latest Rev B version.  Uptone had the same thing on the original Regen (the green) and revised it and released the amber  - the one I have.  They upgraded everyone's board - great service from those fine folks!  This is why I'm holding off on the Intona - hoping for a 2.0 version with better clocks.
    Well it will take a few weeks to sort through all the permutations.  But it won't  be nearly as bad the 17 6922 tube review I did (see my moniker) that got me to 'Contributor' status from the fine folks here at Headfi.  That took 7-8 hours a day for a full week of tube rolling!
    Looking forward to tonight listening session with the Recovery and a bottle of small batch Elijah Craig.
  13. abartels
    Hi Bob,
    Most important is as less as much noise in psu, and please feed it with it's own R-Core, and if possible, connect that R-Core to a powerfilter, the ones I used in my dac, this really does the trick.
    Changing caps should also improve SQ, but first things first, external psu for crystals, burnin-in for 150 hours and start listening to it :)
  14. b0bb
    Thanks, the OCXO was an unexpected improvement, on paper the CCHD-575 would have been just as good if phase noise was the only measure, it clearly was not the case from the listening test.
    The DDC is a big part of the equation, the one I am using on the DAC is a modified Amanero with CCHD-957s. I2S output.
    The board has 6xADP-150s plus a LT3042 primary regulator, 0.8uV noise.
    In fact, the total noise-output is never stated in the data-sheets, and measurements only mention in-band-noise up to 20kHz, suggesting that higher frequency noise has no effect on fidelity.
    This is one reason I never cared for DS DACs in general, the ESS Saber series being the exception. The bulk of my current inventory is R2R (Schitt Yggy, Soekris DAM1021, Philips TDA1541A).
    I find the ESS Hyperstream modulator in the Saber32 quite exceptional in that the noise is at -140dBFS up to 200kHz, indeed this is the one of the main claims of their IP, as the snippet from ESS's Hyperstream patent shows.

    Patent reference is on the right side of the pic if there is any interest.
    The giant spur at 3MHz is one reason why implementation is so important, if vendors do not have the correct analog post processing, the spur being only 40dB down causes no end of havoc.
    Adding to the complication is the use of cheap opamps in the I/V that will struggle in the 2-4MHz range.
  15. Caper
    Ordered the Intona standard.
    Should be here in a couple of day´s, way before the F1 I also ordered [​IMG]
    Interesting to hear if I will hear any difference from the configuration I now have!
1 2 3 4 5 6
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

Share This Page