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Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by rb2013, Mar 27, 2016.
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  1. rb2013 Contributor
    Berkerly Alpha USB:
    Tanly (old version):
  2. Maxx134

    I have been using the Pro3a without an external supply,
    As I am waiting for my ipower.

    This Pro3a, without even an external PSU,
    is already superior to the Yggy USB Gen3 ..!!
    A bit more soundstage air, depth and instrument separation..
    A more effortless presentation with the unit only having 15hrs burn in at most.

    The Pro3a is completely sold out now, as it seems it is gaining popularity.

    But now what you say about the F-1..!

    So I ordered the F-1 and would like to ask,
    Do you see on the board a location for an external power input,
    like the Pro3a has?..
    I will have a Regen feeding it from the computer.
  3. rb2013 Contributor
    Here is my quick and dirty mounting for the F-1.  I had a case left over from a defunct Melodious MX-U8.  I'll likely mount the X-1 next to it.  The F-1 sits on those little brass risers screwed to the bottom of the aluminum case.  Just drilled out new holes aligned to the F-1's:
    Note the very good power chain feeding the F-1.  The power supply will be critical to top sound quality.  The DC-30W TeraDak not shown - this is a work horse linear power supply with an R-core transformer, adjustable output voltage. Definitely not the lowest noise LPS out there - but heck for $150 what do you expect!  The iFi DC iPurifier is a big help in filtering down the noise - as is the ultra low noise regulators on the Regen - then of course more filtering by the iPur2...
    So here is the data chain and power chain from the wall:
    For the USB data stream:
    PC>LH Labs 2G split USB cable (data leg only)>Regen>Regen hard adapter>iPurifer2>DDC
    Power feed to the Regen's external power port:
    Wall Socket (Teslaplex)>Audience aR1p (AC line conditioner/rebalancer)>Art Audio PB4X4 Pro(common and differential mode AC line filtering and isolation)>Cerious Tech Graphene power cable>TeraDak DC-30W R-Core LPS>DC iPurifier>Regen power input (2.5mm cable).
    Two things I would like to try:
    1)Curious Regen 6" USB cable in place of the Regen hard adapter
    2)W4S Recovery in place of the Regen - but this may not work as I understand the Recovery requires a USB power handshake - even when powered by it's own 9VDC ext power port.  I could connect the power leg of the 2G to an external power source for the handshake - but that kind defeats the 'purity' of the clean USB powerless cable (possible power interference at the USB head connector).
  4. rb2013 Contributor
    "This Pro3a, without even an external PSU,
    is already superior to the Yggy USB Gen3 ..!!"
    Wow!  That says a lot.  On my Gustard U12 thread much was written about the benefits of using an external DDC versus internal board.  Has to do with 'Packet Noise' created by the USB receiver's AGC modulating to varying signal integrity, and the error control mechanisms in the USB PHY.  This can feed back through even the most well crafted power schemes in the DAC to cause issues with the DAC's clocks.  All these femto clocks are hyper sensitive to power noise. 
    Wait until you try the Pro3a with a decent external power source!  The F-1 well fed - is out of this world.
    PS Edit:  No need for an external power input - as the Regen cleans the power and it's fed externally.  I suggest a decent power source for the Regen.
    I have a iFi iUSB2.0 (with the iPur2) and need to give it a try with the F-1 X-1.  Using the TeraDak/DCiPur to feed it - without the Regen.  I will once the burnin is complete.

  5. motberg
    FWIW and perhaps another data point, I am using an "old" Tanly - and adding the Intona to the Tanly was a bigger upgrade in SQ than, for instance, from the MX-U8 to the Tanly....
    Actually adding the Intona was at least equal to the improvement that I noticed between any of the 6 or so DDC upgrades I have made - it trumped a few DAC "upgrades" also...
    Adding a battery powered Regen or Recovery after the Intona is just the icing on the cake so to speak... but this stuff is very system dependent and I am using i2S rather than SPDIF/AES...
    So, I am especially looking forward to reports on these new bridges i2S performance...
    thanks to rb2013 for taking the lead...(and.... sorry... off topic but 1975 Reflektor E88CC's are brilliant!!!!)
  6. rb2013 Contributor

    Glad you love the '75 HG's!
    Well I'm using a Paul Pang V2 USB card in my WIN 10 machine - fed by an iFi iPower. That was a small but noticeable improvement before the addition of the iPurifer2 and the DC iPurifier.  After really small.  Some folks with the PPA 3 card have noted a small improvement with the Intona - but a much bigger one with their laptops.  So I guess the improvement from the Intona is very system dependent.
    My set-up is vastly different then most folks - first I had been using a Jitterbug modded into a +5 VDC VBUS blocker out of the PPA - with the ground pin cut as well.
    Using only the data leg of a Lightspeed 2G cable.  Tried the Curious USB (not a split cable) and for my system the 2G was way better.  Now I know all kinds of folks are raving about the Curious loom - so you know YMMV!
    On the Intona.  Now again my system is much different then most. My APL DAC for example is a $6500 custom design using six AKM 32-bit DACs per channel -  Lundahl transformer coupling - class A ECC99 tube output stage - femto clock board, custom discrete SPDIF reciever, WBT Nexgen gold connectors, etc...  Not the typical $600-$800 Gumby, Gustard or AudioGd.  The latest version of this APL DAC goes for well over $10K. 
    The things I don't like about the intona: Need USB power from the PC.  Hopefully the next version will have ext power capabilities - or the Uptone version combined with the Regen technology.  Another high end cable needed in the chain.  The Intona reclocks (in fact recreates) the data stream with very low end STItime clocks, I wouldn't mind paying a little more and getting better clocks.  I'm sure that will come from them or another company like Uptone on the next generation.  But some time I will get something like this...
    Like the Regen - it has been really variable in the performance changes. Did not like it with the Pro3a - but worked great with the Breeze and the F-1 - why?  Who knows.  Will give a W4S Recovery a try to see.
  7. motberg

    bought a set of 74's as a backup!
    Yep - some of this USB stuff does not make much sense, I think I have an OK front end:
    Server: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  , 32GB OS SSD (PPA batterypack ), 256GB +500GB SSD's w/LPS for primary music (all WAV files), SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks, PPA V2 USB card (PPA battery pack). Software: WIN2012 core/AO, JPlay6, Mini, Total Commander:
    Source: PPA V2 USB card (battery)  > 1.7M PPA dual USB cable > Intona standard USB isolator > Pagena AG 0.5M USB cable > W4S Recovery (battery)> PPA 17CM red USB cable > Tanly DDC HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 1M) i2S > Audio-GD Master 7 DAC.
    So you can see it is LPS and batteries and the audio sources (not the PC) are fed by a 220V mains power regenerator. (I do not think an APL DAC is in my future - I first need some serious speakers upgrade.. and then there's the grandkids :)
    The Intona was a good improvement even with the pretty stable PC (perhaps the mains power here is really bad..), but to be honest - - nothing like adding 75 Reflektors :wink:
    Agree on the Curious - I sent my Curious link back also... prefer the PPA stuff... and the one Pagena in the loom does not seem to hurt anything. The Curious guy is great to work with though, and with his return policy everyone should try his stuff if they have the inkling..
    For the Intona, it is pretty easy to upgrade the power.. mine is getting fed by a PPA 5V battery pack through the PPA 2 card (I noticed the change powering this from LPS to battery)...agreed on the so-so clocking (at least in principal, I do not know such stuff) but that can be pretty easily remedied by the Regen/Recovery and battery... in fact I personally would lean against an all-in-one solution unless it was totally killer - I can easily see folks preferring the Regen over the Recovery and visa-versa. I found the Regen very dynamic, but when I changed my listening position to near-field it was a bit much, so the Recovery is now the better fit. The trouble is the added expense, it is really crazy money for these small incremental improvements - good thing many of the companies offer a grace period...   
    It is great for us consumers these companies like iFi, W4S, Uptone, etc. are constantly raising the bar.. and they got the China suppliers pushing also... must be a crazy business to be in these days... it will be interesting to see the next couple years new products developments.
    I think the general value of quality audio is quite good compared to years ago.. with a well tuned laptop and some thought given to the other stuff you can put together a system that would have taken mega-bucks back then....
  8. rb2013 Contributor

    Really nice PC set-up!  I just bought a 'new' Haswell iCore7 4790 12GB DDR3 - still running WD Black discs.  WIN10 on this machine - which I do like.  Heck $450 for the package - (not including the Fanless low noise PS I installed - or the El Fidelity SATA and fan filters).  These Haswell processors run very cool - no case fan needed, only a very quiet CPU fan.  Have it on a dedicated PB4X4 Pro AC line filter.  The 14nm Broadwell's are even more efficient.
    I hear the PPA3 OXCO card is a nice step-up - some point down the road - need lot's of juice.
    Yes it is crazy all these USB gadgets - but the results are astounding.  Really rivaling my old analog step-up ($30K).
    Just put the X-1 in the office system - replacing my slightly modded Breeze there.  Very, Very nice!  These new XU208 have a depth to the imaging that is immediately noticeable.  Very pleasant rich tone as well. 
    Here is my down and dirty mounting - using an old D-Link WiFi.  Will search around for a nicer case for this:

    Also found this for the X-1
    The '75 HGs are really special - wish I could find more of them.
  9. hugoboss
    you made me more itchy to order this f-1 hahahaha, i also use elfidelity sata filter and pci express filter, plus elfidelity usb card
    i will order this shortly to compare the amanero usb quality from my upcoming audio gd nos 7
    seems like i gonna use the coax from f-1 to  audio gd to compare with it's own usb amanero.
    i already have ifi micro iusb 3.
    i also have jays audio china linear usb psu 5 volt but not gonna use this after i have ifi usb 3
    will gonna do like this
    elfidelity usb card -> ifi usb 3 ->dual head usb cable separate power (the usb power go to linear psu, or just use the ifi iusb 3 power ) -> f-1 -> nos 7 coax input
    elfidelity usb card->ifi usb 3 data only -> nos 7 usb (audio gd amanero dont need power from usb)
    i will post my result as soon i receive both f1 and nos 7
    thanks for your picture setup and how do u think about cchd-957 vs cchd-575 . which one is better
  10. rb2013 Contributor

    That sounds good - what power supply on the iUSB3.0 - the new 10uv iPower?  Or a LPS 9VDC?  Not sure what they include as std.
    The 575 has slightly better phase noise numbers then the 975:
    From Crystek:
    So for the same clock freq 22.5792 (575 then 975):
    10 Hz  -100dB   -97dB
    100Hz -130dB   -126dB
    1KHz   -151dB   -149dB
    10kHz  -163dB   -162dB
    100kHz -165dB   -169dB
    So in the freq below 20kHz approx the 575 is better.
  11. rb2013 Contributor
    One of the cool things about the new XMOS 200 series processors is they are easily firmware updateable.
    In the enclosed Singxer docs (in Chinese of course) there appears to the latest firmware being V1.30  and how to update, but I can't find the .bin file for the V1.30
    Reading the firmware version of the X-1 - it shows V1.10 and the F-1 shows V1.20.  The updating process is very easy - but will have to find out where to get that file.  The file iscalled DFU_v130.bin
  12. hugoboss
    all micro iUSB3.0 now comes with the iPower which has an astonishingly low audio band noise floor of just 1uV!
    but still i saw somebody said in headfi the good external linear psu better then ipower
  13. Luckit
    @ rb2013: FYI firmware updating on XMOS processors was enabled wayyyyy back and not come with this latest chip release! I used it for my WaveIOs starting back in 2012 when I've update its stock firmware (24/192) to 32/384 capabilities and I'm using it right now. In fact, that chip (XS1-L1A-TQ128) was the oldest possible chip I know made by XMOS. The update is made through USB DFU functionality (DFU = Device Firmware Update). I don't know if it's permitted to share some external links but look for WaveIO's thread on Diyaudio where there are plenty of questions regarding how to upload a new firmware over a stock one. Anyway, here's a link for such a procedure starting back in 2014 - look at the date in upper left side of my post (it can be deleted by moderators if this is their will). This "
    supports firmware upgrade interface​
    " text is put there only for marketing purposes so that unaware buyers will believe it's a whole new thing and was never made before. [​IMG] 
      I also really hope this board does NOT come with hacked Luckit drivers like a multitude of other chinese/SK/HK ones found on Aliexpress, Taobao, eBay, etc does!
      All infos above are shared only to warn you to not blindly believe what others are saying...
      I hope it helps,
    About Windows driver:
    I am curious if the current driver for U8 can be used for XU208 as well.
  15. Maxx134

    That is good news as I plan to use the Regen into the F-1.

    Can I ask what are the general dimensions of the F-1 ?
    I am looking for a nice metal case for it.
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