[doraymon]

converted to I2S on a clock that's independent from the USB clock

That’s the critical piece of information.
So what I need to understand is which clock does my DAC use to do this.
Just to put things into perspective and understand where am I coming from, check my signature.
My DAC’s architecture is so that the signal fed to the D/A conversion section is always I2S.
Any other input signal other than I2S will be converted on board by the DAC.

I purchased the Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR assuming that this would have been a much better quality D/D converter (it uses two Crystek CCHD-575 clock oscillators).
However for some mysterious reasons my ears tell me that I like better the sound when the SU-1 is out of the chain.
I am trying to understand the reasons why...

 

[gvl2016]

That’s the critical piece of information.
So what I need to understand is which clock does my DAC use to do this.
Just to put things into perspective and understand where am I coming from, check my signature.
My DAC’s architecture is so that the signal fed to the D/A conversion section is always I2S.
Any other input signal other than I2S will be converted on board by the DAC.

I purchased the Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR assuming that this would have been a much better quality D/D converter (it uses two Crystek CCHD-575 clock oscillators).
However for some mysterious reasons my ears tell me that I like better the sound when the SU-1 is out of the chain.
I am trying to understand the reasons why...

How long is the I2S cable? The internal conversion to I2S has the benefit of shorter path to the actual DAC circuitry and no differential drivers/receivers in the path. Fwiw, the USB interface in the Holo Spring is an async XMOS board as far as I can tell from the pictures, so should be subject to the same issues if you suspect the oscillators aren't up to snuff as compared to your quality source (is it the SOtM tX-USBultra?).

 

[doraymon]

How long is the I2S cable?

Supra HD5 HDMI cable 50cm length.

the USB interface in the Holo Spring is an async XMOS board as far as I can tell from the pictures

Correct

is it the SOtM tX-USBultra?

Correct

 

[gvl2016]

Supra HD5 HDMI cable 50cm length.

I didn't try very hard but I couldn't find any info if the Holo Spring has any sort of I2S reclocker just before the DAC that the signal always go through regardless of which input is used, I think they would have made a big deal out of it if it had one. Assuming it doesn't reclock I2S signal internally the clock that the DAC modules run at comes from either the I2S, SPDIF interface chips, or the internal USB interface depending on which input is active. So it is the Sinxer's oscillators that clock the DAC when the I2S input is used.

About your cable. I'd say 50cm is too long. Use the shortest possible quality HDMI cable you can find to eliminate a possibility of clock degradation due to the cable length. Blue Jeans Cable sells 1ft Belden HDMI cable, perhaps give it a shot unless you can find one that's even shorter and will reach between the output/input.

Also I don't quite get the benefits of inline USB reclockers now that the world has moved to async USB interfaces, but I'm maybe missing something. Perhaps they provide other benefits like galvanic isolation, I can see that being useful unless it is implemented in the DAC.

 

[doraymon]

I didn't try very hard but I couldn't find any info if the Holo Spring has any sort of I2S reclocker just before the DAC that the signal always go through regardless of which input is used, I think they would have made a big deal out of it if it had one. Assuming it doesn't reclock I2S signal internally the clock that the DAC modules run at comes from either the I2S, SPDIF interface chips, or the internal USB interface depending on which input is active. So it is the Sinxer's oscillators that clock the DAC when the I2S input is used.

About your cable. I'd say 50cm is too long. Use the shortest possible quality HDMI cable you can find to eliminate a possibility of clock degradation due to the cable length.

Also I don't quite get the benefits of inline USB reclockers now that the world has moved to async USB interfaces, but I'm maybe missing something. Perhaps they provide other benefits like galvanic isolation, I can see that being useful unless it is implemented in the DAC.

I had an exchange with Tim of Kitsune HiFi.
The XU208 USB module relies on external clocks to convert the signal to I2S and the same goes for music sampling (2 clocks, one for 44.1/88.2/176.4/352.8, the other for 48/96/192/384). Total 3 clocks.
He clarified that the Spring DAC's own clocks are not at the level of the Crystek clocks in the Singxer SU-1. Using the HDMI I2S input of the DAC will bypass the DAC's internal clocks and use the external one which is from the SU1. And the SU-1 is more accurate/lower phase noise, especially with the KTE DDR mods.

So the only things left to explain why would I hear a better SQ without the SU-1 are:
1) length and quality of the cable (although my Supra was suggested by Tim himself)
2) burn-in of the SU-1 and temperature stabilisation (apparently the Crystek clocks need up to 24h to stabilise and deliver their full potential...)
3) My brain, ears and tastes are just liking more the USB solution...

 

[gvl2016]

Or the Singxer is defective. Of course you can only know for sure what's going on, if anything, if you put your gear on the test bench and get some measurements.

 

[doraymon]

Or the Singxer is defective. Of course you can only know for sure what's going on, if anything, if you put your gear on the test bench and get some measurements.

Yeah good point...

 

[motberg]

Yeah good point...

My guess is the clocks and processing in the tX-USBultra is so far advanced from the SU-1 that the SU-1 becomes a downgrade bottleneck.
In your case the sMS-200ultra should be offering some isolation through the Ethernet to USB conversion (iiuc).
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of posts already in other forums concerning the SOtM Ultra series proficiency in improving SQ, which can even be enhanced by using an outboard reference clock. If I recall correctly, there have been a few posts testing direct comparison vs. the Uptone ISORegen (Crystek) and W4S Recovery (Crystek?) and the SOtM Ultra was preferred, but the Uptone IR is much more affordable and offers isolation in most cases.

I have a friend that tried my SU-1 (with Supercaps PS) and my Tanly, and Recovery, and a couple other DDC's and then later got the SOtM tx Ultra.. his observation is SOtM Ultra is currently in a different league.

I am not sure how good the KTE mod is on the SU-1, but in my case I needed to provide independent isolated 5V power to the board to get it to beat my Tanly... Even after 3 days solid break-in it, the original SU-1 was still harsh sounding (my speakers have some peaks after 10K that can be problematic.)

Some day I may try a tX-USBultra also, I would love to get one but that is a LOT of money for a reclocker without GI.. so for now I will be sticking with my Crystek´s; JCat USB card->Singxer UIP-1 isolator->Recovery->SU-1->i2s ... sounds great and performs solidly with much care to the cables and power. I use a Wireworld 0.3M (old model Starlight) HDMI cable for the i2s.. I agree your 0.5 meter cable may be some problem.. I tried a 0.5M DH Labs HDMI briefly and I think the Starlight was better. That said, I have had a 1 M Starlight in my system while doing some testing and worked fine.

I am not sure, but I think HDMI i2s does use some type of transmitter/receiver scheme. IIUC, a SE i2s transmission (that typically uses RJ45 type connectors) does not, but must use super short cable, as i2s was not developed for external components.

I think some DIY guy is already working on using SOtM Ultra clock outputs to replace the clocks in the SU-1.. I do not think this has yet been completed, but if successful would seem the perfect solution in your case as you already own the Ultra clock module in your SOtM devices.
I am hoping SOtM comes out with an Ultra DDC with i2s... currently they offer an AES/SPDIF DDC Ultra version, I think that is around 1200 USD or so

 

[Zowie1]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about adding either Intona Isolator Industrial version or Startech/Icron 1 GB lan etc. into my chain with Singxer F-1 and Marantz HD-Dac-1 or just replace the F-1 with it. Which one would be a better option?

Is this the right version to get if I decide to buy Startech/Icron:
https://www.amazon.de/StarTech-com-Gigabit-Cat5e-Ethernet-verlängerung/dp/B00HFGQESY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520681409&sr=8-2&keywords=startech+usb+lan&th=1

(I would probably need the 4 port gigabit version if I've understood correctly)

 

[motberg]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about adding either Intona Isolator Industrial version or Startech/Icron 1 GB lan etc. into my chain with Singxer F-1 and Marantz HD-Dac-1 or just replace the F-1 with it. Which one would be a better option?

Is this the right version to get if I decide to buy Startech/Icron:
https://www.amazon.de/StarTech-com-Gigabit-Cat5e-Ethernet-verlängerung/dp/B00HFGQESY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520681409&sr=8-2&keywords=startech+usb+lan&th=1

(I would probably need the 4 port gigabit version if I've understood correctly)

I believe the correct model is USB2G4LEXT2.. there is a currently active thread at US Audiomart forums which has a lot of cool information.. (I think an older one here also..) this could get somewhat expensive as it seems best performance requires upgrading the power supplies at both ends. This seems a good idea if you need a longer distance USB extension.

I got one of these and works great.. https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/singxer-uip-1-isolate-processor-usb2-0-usb-interface.html
This probably benefits from the cleanest power you could afford also..

You should be able to pick up a used Intona pretty cheap I think... they work well, but may benefit from some sort of additional reclocking after the isolation.

I think the best current value is the Uptone Audio ISORegen as it includes isolation and decent USB reclocking... Uptone is pretty good handling international shipments also, from my experience I would advise their cheapest option, but you can ask Uptone for their experience to your country... again can probably get a used one at a good price as folks sometimes change to SOtM stuff..

 

[murphythecat]

did anyone compared the new version of the breeze audio du u8 x208 to schiit eitr or mutec mc3+ or singxer su1, ect?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...tal-interface-to-support-DSD/32789780971.html

I use the previous breeze du u8 and im looking to upgrade. My dac only accept Toslink input so it makes the Eitr or the singxer products out for me. what is out there that would be a good upgrade from my breeze audio du u8 v1?

 

[phile1]

Hi Murphy,
I add a U8 modded. The Breeze U208 was behind but close to my U8 modded. I kept my U8.

If you need toslink, you can have a look at the Assembled XU208 / FUN01 : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembled-...Interface-XLR-AES-fiber-coaxial-/112402255126
I tried it but it sounded harsh. I guess the trouble was the PS I used. I plan to test again this FUN01 with a linear PS (LPS is ordered, I should receive it within 10days). Apart from this harsh sound, this FUN01 was ahead of my modded U8 (more dynamic, more 3D, more details). I'll post feedback about this test on the FUN01.

I received a SU-1 this week. Burning is nearly completed. It sounds ahead all my previous DDC (modded U8, Breeze U208, FUN01).
I'll compare the SU-1 to the FUN01+LPS.
Rgds

 

[superuser1]

did anyone compared the new version of the breeze audio du u8 x208 to schiit eitr or mutec mc3+ or singxer su1, ect?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...tal-interface-to-support-DSD/32789780971.html

I use the previous breeze du u8 and im looking to upgrade. My dac only accept Toslink input so it makes the Eitr or the singxer products out for me. what is out there that would be a good upgrade from my breeze audio du u8 v1?

What drivers are you using for Windows 10 with your Breeze U8?

 

[murphythecat]

Hi Murphy,
I add a U8 modded. The Breeze U208 was behind but close to my U8 modded. I kept my U8.

If you need toslink, you can have a look at the Assembled XU208 / FUN01 : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembled-...Interface-XLR-AES-fiber-coaxial-/112402255126
I tried it but it sounded harsh. I guess the trouble was the PS I used. I plan to test again this FUN01 with a linear PS (LPS is ordered, I should receive it within 10days). Apart from this harsh sound, this FUN01 was ahead of my modded U8 (more dynamic, more 3D, more details). I'll post feedback about this test on the FUN01.

I received a SU-1 this week. Burning is nearly completed. It sounds ahead all my previous DDC (modded U8, Breeze U208, FUN01).
I'll compare the SU-1 to the FUN01+LPS.
Rgds

hi
ok so since I have the previous breeze duu8, the new breeze x208 would probably be only a very small upgrade?
Let me know, when you can, what LPS you will use with the FUN01 and how it comapres to SU-1!!!
The SU-1 sadly doesnt offer toslink out, so I cannot use it with my DAC. Mutec mc3+ would be ideal but I dont have the money for it. what are my other options around 500$?

thanks a lot

 

[murphythecat]

What drivers are you using for Windows 10 with your Breeze U8?

I'm using the original breeze duu8, not sure if my drivers will work with your new breeze....