XDuoo X3 DSD 24Bit / 192KHz CS4398 Chip Lossless Music Player
Feb 18, 2016 at 10:22 AM Post #1,726 of 5,194

Gerryhatrick

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+1
 
dBpoweramp Music Converter (includes a Batch Converter, a CD Ripper, a CD Writer and, obviously, a Music Converter) seems to cover all the needs... For example, it can be used to resample (44.1 KHz to 48 Khz)...
 
Before joining the 'resampling can cause artifacts' brigade one should try to find out for himself / herself.  Crying over the spilt milk does not usually help, does it...?
 
By the way, I have no affiliation whatsoever to 'dBpoweramp'...


I've used Bigasoft Audio Converter  to batch convert a couple of albums (Dylan and the soundtrack to Donnie Darko) from 44.1 to 48. Takes less than a minute per album. Smaller file size (eg 42MB down to 25.5MB). Length of a 3min track is 1sec slower at 44.1. Listened to both 44.1 and 48 and I can't tell the difference and was not aware of any artefacts introduced by upsampling.
 
Non scientific, maybe I could have chosen different music genres or maybe I have cloth ears!
 
But this is a budget player; I use it on the move with a pair of AKG 451 headphones. Would I be able to notice the difference if this bug were present in a more technically advanced player with £1000 cans? I don't know, but I suspect most people will be happy with their X3. If they can perceive a pitch difference they have better hearing than me, but it is fast and easy to upscale to 48 to check whether they can hear any introduced artefacts.
 
Or stick to 24/96!
 
Feb 18, 2016 at 10:24 AM Post #1,727 of 5,194

Gerryhatrick

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I've used Bigasoft Audio Converter  to batch convert a couple of albums (Dylan and the soundtrack to Donnie Darko) from 44.1 to 48. Takes less than a minute per album. Smaller file size (eg 42MB down to 25.5MB). Length of a 3min track is 1sec slower at 44.1. Listened to both 44.1 and 48 and I can't tell the difference and was not aware of any artefacts introduced by upsampling.
 
Non scientific, maybe I could have chosen different music genres or maybe I have cloth ears!
 
But this is a budget player; I use it on the move with a pair of AKG 451 headphones. Would I be able to notice the difference if this bug were present in a more technically advanced player with £1000 cans? I don't know, but I suspect most people will be happy with their X3. If they can perceive a pitch difference they have better hearing than me, but it is fast and easy to upscale to 48 to check whether they can hear any introduced artefacts.
 
Or stick to 24/96!


Sorry, 1sec longer
 
Feb 18, 2016 at 2:48 PM Post #1,729 of 5,194

BruceBanner

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You raise a very good point, and one I'd been thinking about myself, and a feeling that this was/ought to be the kind of thing that's defined in firmware, and both the Fiio X1 and the xDuoo X3 both run 12MHz crystals (from the photos I've seen of their circuit boards).
 
What's interesting to me is that the X3 went for some while with largely positive reviews of its sound etc. without anyone appearing to notice the pitch error, and it's only after (I think) one person on a Russian forum picked it up and measured it (whether they measured it first and then heard it, or vice-versa, I don't know) and the news then spread, that this has become the "issue" it is today.  One wonders (speculating) that if it had not been noticed and measured then, for how much longer would it continued to have gone unnoticed?  It's funny, isn't it that with digital devices, we take pitch-accuracy so very much for granted, that we just assume it will be so - unlike back in the analogue days with tapes and pulleys and drive-belts.
 
For my own part, I'll admit that I don't hear the pitch error - but I haven't done A/B comaprisons.  I don't notice it in normal listening, and I'd suspect that most of us (if we had no prior knowledge of any pitch error) wouldn't pick it up either.  I'd also like to see if anyone with no prior information could pick up the difference between 100BPM and 100.8BPM in a piece of music and repeatably tell me which one "sounded slow".  Am I saying that the error is trivial? No, I'm not.  The reason we are here on this forum is that we generally seek the most accurate sound, and playing at the correct speed/pitch is part of that.  Hi-Fi is all about reducing errors and distortions of any kind, and I think it it is only natural to want to see this error fixed.
 
Far more important to me to have fixed is the lack of gapless playback and the slight cut-off at the start of some tracks.
 
That said, I have been doing a lot of listening through my xDuoo X3 lately, and finding it just glorious.  Listening to music that I know really well and finding fresh pleasures and hidden sonic gems in the reording - like Jackie Leven's Forbidden Songs of the Dying West, and realising that I can hear what I think must be his shirt buttons just catching on the back of his guitar, and the slight creaking of his chair.  Magic!  It almost sounds like being in the same room as the artist.  Made me smile and my hair stand a little on end.  And that's the point of it all isn't it?

 
Good feedback. And I agree, but as someone who stated earlier that they might (or did) describe the sound as 'slow' or 'sluggish' they'd be laughed at! Now with the pitch error their perceptions are justified. And now that I know about it I will be 'looking out' for it lol, just another placebo hifi thing to deal with lmao.
It seems to be very hit or miss as to whether it's noticeable or not. I have went to the trouble to speed some songs up in the past as I liked them (the album versions) to be more inline with the pace they are played live, so I have my suspicions that I might be able to tell the difference. But who knows.
 
 
 
I've used Bigasoft Audio Converter  to batch convert a couple of albums (Dylan and the soundtrack to Donnie Darko) from 44.1 to 48. Takes less than a minute per album. Smaller file size (eg 42MB down to 25.5MB). Length of a 3min track is 1sec slower at 44.1. Listened to both 44.1 and 48 and I can't tell the difference and was not aware of any artefacts introduced by upsampling.
 
Non scientific, maybe I could have chosen different music genres or maybe I have cloth ears!
 
But this is a budget player; I use it on the move with a pair of AKG 451 headphones. Would I be able to notice the difference if this bug were present in a more technically advanced player with £1000 cans? I don't know, but I suspect most people will be happy with their X3. If they can perceive a pitch difference they have better hearing than me, but it is fast and easy to upscale to 48 to check whether they can hear any introduced artefacts.
 
Or stick to 24/96!

 
This is what we needed to hear. As i stated earlier, troubleshooting DAP issues has long been my mantra in one way or another, if you get a DAP that works with the users music collections from the get go then that seems to be rather the exception these days rather than the norm these days lol.
So many people had issues with their FLAC files running smoothly on the Alien Shozy for example, it seems not all FLAC is equal when it comes to how it was made in the first place. Or sd cards needing to be formatted a certain way in order to work etc. Anyway... I digress.
Point is, HDD space is cheap and plentiful, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the pitch error can be worked around without disturbing perceived audio quality whatsoever by running a simple batch process over night.
More pitch people should do the above process and report back, as soon as we have a few people say it works and can't hear the difference between the two files then we essentially have a workaround.
 
Remember, the X3 (for it's apparently superb audio quality and storage capacity) for it's price is a superb bargain, if the one bug that cannot be addressed in firmware can be worked around then that's worth it imo. Or pay 6x the price for another similar sounding DAP and don't run a process over night... your choice.
 
Feb 18, 2016 at 3:34 PM Post #1,730 of 5,194

ozkan

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Good feedback. And I agree, but as someone who stated earlier that they might (or did) describe the sound as 'slow' or 'sluggish' they'd be laughed at! Now with the pitch error their perceptions are justified. And now that I know about it I will be 'looking out' for it lol, just another placebo hifi thing to deal with lmao.
It seems to be very hit or miss as to whether it's noticeable or not. I have went to the trouble to speed some songs up in the past as I liked them (the album versions) to be more inline with the pace they are played live, so I have my suspicions that I might be able to tell the difference. But who knows.



This is what we needed to hear. As i stated earlier, troubleshooting DAP issues has long been my mantra in one way or another, if you get a DAP that works with the users music collections from the get go then that seems to be rather the exception these days rather than the norm these days lol.

So many people had issues with their FLAC files running smoothly on the Alien Shozy for example, it seems not all FLAC is equal when it comes to how it was made in the first place. Or sd cards needing to be formatted a certain way in order to work etc. Anyway... I digress.
Point is, HDD space is cheap and plentiful, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the pitch error can be worked around without disturbing perceived audio quality whatsoever by running a simple batch process over night.
More pitch people should do the above process and report back, as soon as we have a few people say it works and can't hear the difference between the two files then we essentially have a workaround.

Remember, the X3 (for it's apparently superb audio quality and storage capacity) for it's price is a superb bargain, if the one bug that cannot be addressed in firmware can be worked around then that's worth it imo. Or pay 6x the price for another similar sounding DAP and don't run a process over night... your choice.


Pitch error is only audible if you are aware or listen carefully. Otherwise it's not so noticeable unless you have golden ears. Did @twister6 mention about the slowness on his review? No because he didn't hear too. My friend listened it today and said it isn't bothersome as he thought to be.

I will convert some 44.1hz songs to 48hz and see if it helps the issue.
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 3:30 AM Post #1,731 of 5,194

oscarcao

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Sad to hear your woes but I think we all expect Chinese sellers to do their utmost to make returning items a chore. It is a fact of life it seems that they are happy to have your business when everything is going well but if an issue occurs they know you are not going to be able to harass them in person.


I guess I followed through the return process mainly to prove wrong the peeps who stood up and vouched for 'how great the Penon Audio customer service is'.

:)
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 3:31 AM Post #1,732 of 5,194

DjBobby

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Apple TV is upsampling everything by default to 48khz. Haven't used it for any critical listening though, being connected only to my tv soundbar. 
Also AP100 has a src function for upsampling, which many prefer to leave always on. 
Maybe just a simple firmware upsampling to 48 will solve easily all the pitch issues.
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 4:42 AM Post #1,733 of 5,194

seanwee

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  Apple TV is upsampling everything by default to 48khz. Haven't used it for any critical listening though, being connected only to my tv soundbar. 
Also AP100 has a src function for upsampling, which many prefer to leave always on. 
Maybe just a simple firmware upsampling to 48 will solve easily all the pitch issues.

Sounds promising..........
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 6:15 AM Post #1,734 of 5,194

BruceBanner

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Mind u, the AP100 upsampling does change the sound signature a fair bit. I personally find it adds variety (throughout the various SRC modes), changes with the soundstage etc and what not, I usually have mine set at 24bit 96kHz most of the time.
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 7:31 AM Post #1,735 of 5,194

dharmasteve

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Thought I would put my three halfpenny worth into the arena. Had the X3 for about three weeks now. Read about the pitch issue before it arrived and I was sort of stuck and dreading the worst. Experience has told me to always compare though. In the headphone world I learned that lesson well. It's nigh on impossible to judge a headphone without listening to it relatively, alongside others.There's no reference point otherwise. I say that as a collector of headphones. Some would be surprised at the best headphones. So with the X3 I decided to listen and compare it to the Fiio X3 2nd gen, the Fiio X1, Xuelin X770C, and the Xduoo x2 using the Yamaha MT-220 headphones. In terms of pitch I found, like others, a discrepancy of about half a second a minute. Against a track of 3min 59 seconds there was a 2 second diference against the Fiio X3 and Xuelin Ihifi 770C. I found it very hard to notice audibly and still felt the Xduoo X3 stood up to the others. It definitely outperforms the X2. Has a little more slam (maybe because of pitch) to the others. I  would say highs on the Fiio X3 2nd gen, the X1 and particularly the Xuelin ihifi770c are more detailed. But the Xduoo X3 still sounds excellent and in other areas outperforms all the others. Like others I have found DAP's ordered from China unreliable. Both the Xduoo X3 and Xuelin ihifi770c have poor battery life, about six hours each and it's too much of a nuisance to start returning players. I like the sound of the Xduoo X3. I find it certaily does not effect my enjoyment of music and for the record my music is maily in MP3 format 44.1,16. Linn Records gave a studio master Flac away every day in December 2015. So not just a CD resampled to Flac, but Flac recordings at source. This is about the purest Flac available and I have about 30 of them. I struggled to tell any difference to MP3. Which player sounds the best though. Actually the Xueling ihifi770c with its Wolfson 8740 has a lovely analogue sound that stirs my 1960'sw hippie bones. I love it.  In terms of build, service and reliability I would recommend Fiio all the time. Great value, great products and local problem returns too. So on quality and reliability the Fiio X1 and X3 2nd gen should be your choice. For beautiful music the Xuelin Ihifi770c punches way above it's weight.....but probably will be less reliable. The Xduoo X3, though, is really good and although those with perfect pitch will notice a difference, most will enjoy this excellent player. It really is a quality sounding player.
 
Feb 19, 2016 at 8:52 AM Post #1,736 of 5,194

MandoBear

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Thanks dharmasteve for your interesting post - you've kind of anticipated where my mind's going vis-a-vis my X3 and wondering about a Fiio X3ii as a second, upgrade player which will offer an improved UI, better customer support, and some sonic improvements.  Most helpful - thanks!
 

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