[kyle1010]

Thanks for the response that was helpful.

What dac are you using? The fireflies are near the upper end of my budget so I was wondering if its worth getting them if the stock dac is poor. I can use the Oppo HA-2 or Chord Mojo as an existing DAC or pick up a modi 2 or something... would it be smarter to get like a schiit pairing?

My goal is a warmer HD800SDR. But I also want an upgrade over my chord mojo which I'm using now.

Thanks in advance.

Hey so yeah Priscilla basically spelled out exactly what I was gonna tell you. The tube power supply is absolutely worth every penny. Especially if you want to really warm up the sound of an HD800. However, I will add that the upgrade power supply tubes are a little tricky to find but not impossible. And compared to the upgrade tubes for Woo's bigger amps the WA7tp's are dirt cheap. $30-$160/pair with most under $100 and those are also worth every penny.

Priscilla is also right about the CBS Hytron tubes, they're tough to get a good matched pair but the sound is sooo good. Mullards are just smooth, detailed, and neutral but not exciting imo. Sylvania JANs are like $30/pair and seriously addictive sounding if you're into deep bass and lush liquid midrange. Anyway, you miss out on all these options if you don't go tube power supply. Idk why power supply tubes alter the sound either but it's incredible.

DAC time. Mojo will likely be a little better than the WA7 internal dac, but to outperform a Mojo you're probably gonna have to shell out some cash north of $1k. Either way try both the onboard dac and your Mojo with the WA7. You may find the internal dac has better synergy with the WA7's amp section than the Mojo.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

You want warmth, you need tube amps, period.

I use the dac that the 2nd gen wa7 comes with.

And I have never used the solid state ps so I don't know what that sounds like, all I can say is that tubes on tubed PS affect the sound greatly if you get the right tubes installed.
Tubes changing on the amp, however, doesn't do much to the sound.

 

[kyle1010]

You want warmth, you need tube amps, period.

I use the dac that the 2nd gen wa7 comes with.

And I have never used the solid state ps so I don't know what that sounds like, all I can say is that tubes on tubed PS affect the sound greatly if you get the right tubes installed.
Tubes changing on the amp, however, doesn't do much to the sound.

Yup. And to my ears the gold pin tube upgrade in the amp made all my other ps tubes sound more flat. Not a fan.

To be honest, I upsold myself all the way to a WA22 with holy grail tubes and LCD-4s and I still sometimes miss the sound of my WA7tp with CBS Hytrons and LCD-Xs. In fact my WA7 is in its box in my closet waiting for when I move to a bigger place to use it in an office. I'll never get rid of it no matter how much I upgrade my new rig. It's just so good.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

Kyle, would you say that the amp's stock tubes perform better than harmonix gold pins? I'm so gonna swap back to see

 

[Galm]

Hey so yeah Priscilla basically spelled out exactly what I was gonna tell you. The tube power supply is absolutely worth every penny. Especially if you want to really warm up the sound of an HD800. However, I will add that the upgrade power supply tubes are a little tricky to find but not impossible. And compared to the upgrade tubes for Woo's bigger amps the WA7tp's are dirt cheap. $30-$160/pair with most under $100 and those are also worth every penny.

Priscilla is also right about the CBS Hytron tubes, they're tough to get a good matched pair but the sound is sooo good. Mullards are just smooth, detailed, and neutral but not exciting imo. Sylvania JANs are like $30/pair and seriously addictive sounding if you're into deep bass and lush liquid midrange. Anyway, you miss out on all these options if you don't go tube power supply. Idk why power supply tubes alter the sound either but it's incredible.

DAC time. Mojo will likely be a little better than the WA7 internal dac, but to outperform a Mojo you're probably gonna have to shell out some cash north of $1k. Either way try both the onboard dac and your Mojo with the WA7. You may find the internal dac has better synergy with the WA7's amp section than the Mojo.

 

You want warmth, you need tube amps, period.

I use the dac that the 2nd gen wa7 comes with.

And I have never used the solid state ps so I don't know what that sounds like, all I can say is that tubes on tubed PS affect the sound greatly if you get the right tubes installed.
Tubes changing on the amp, however, doesn't do much to the sound.

 
Thanks guys.  The tp is still really too high for me...  Can I buy it separately later?  I just don't think I should be spending an extra 600 plus having to tube roll for the psu right now.  I also still don't understand the science of how that affects the sound at all, but that's a different discussion.  It's surprising to me that the tp tubes do more than the amps.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

It does more than the amp because there are very limited choices over tubes you can switch on the amp, the stock, the gold pins, what else? Not that I know of.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

Maybe WooAudio can explain why the Tubed power supply affect the sound so much?

 

[Galm]

It does more than the amp because there are very limited choices over tubes you can switch on the amp, the stock, the gold pins, what else? Not that I know of.

Can I buy the tp later seperately?
 
Also CBS Hytrons that you mentioned.  How would I even get a pair.  Ebay and google both seem to come up empty.  Is there a good tube buying site or something?  
 
Thanks for the help.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

It shouldn't be a problem to get the tps later. With CBS hytron, you just have to constantly be looking out for them. I got 2 pairs (one incase the other burn out) from ebay, they are vintage tubes from 1950s. Sometimes, they are simply called CBS 5814A (the company later acquird Hytron). There are white, red and blue labels. The white labels are nearly impossible nowadays, the red labels which I own pops up in the market from time to time, the blue labels are said to be **** in another post I read, and they also seem to be the cheapest among the 3, so I would probably avoid them (that being said, I personally never tried the blue labels).

The cbs are the tubes that really made a huge difference.

 

[Galm]

It shouldn't be a problem to get the tps later. With CBS hytron, you just have to constantly be looking out for them. I got 2 pairs (one incase the other burn out) from ebay, they are vintage tubes from 1950s. Sometimes, they are simply called CBS 5814A (the company later acquird Hytron). There are white, red and blue labels. The white labels are nearly impossible nowadays, the red labels which I own pops up in the market from time to time, the blue labels are said to be **** in another post I read, and they also seem to be the cheapest among the 3, so I would probably avoid them (that being said, I personally never tried the blue labels).

The cbs are the tubes that really made a huge difference.

So is this red label or blue label?  I'm guessing blue because the one on the tube?
 
http://www.ebay.com/p/CBS-5814A-Vintage-Tube-Tube-Socket/141027787

 

[kyle1010]

Kyle, would you say that the amp's stock tubes perform better than harmonix gold pins? I'm so gonna swap back to see

For my tastes, yeah the stock amp tubes sound way better. But I like deep bass and lush mids. For those who like a more flat sound the gold pins probably win. But I also noticed with my gold pins that the tube rolls in the power supply didn't make as noticeable of changes in sound. With the stock amp tubes, each power supply tube roll was almost night and day in difference of sound signature between them.

Also, to piggyback about those CBS Hytrons, they're definitely the best. It took me almost 6 months of constantly checking ebay to find a pair of the red label ones. Well worth the wait though. In the meantime the Siemens ECC82s and JAN 5814s kept me very very happy.

 

[Galm]

For my tastes, yeah the stock amp tubes sound way better. But I like deep bass and lush mids. For those who like a more flat sound the gold pins probably win. But I also noticed with my gold pins that the tube rolls in the power supply didn't make as noticeable of changes in sound. With the stock amp tubes, each power supply tube roll was almost night and day in difference of sound signature between them.

Also, to piggyback about those CBS Hytrons, they're definitely the best. It took me almost 6 months of constantly checking ebay to find a pair of the red label ones. Well worth the wait though. In the meantime the Siemens ECC82s and JAN 5814s kept me very very happy.

So the bass is heavier on the stock amp tubes over gold?   Heavier bass is the goal.

 

[kyle1010]

So the bass is heavier on the stock amp tubes over gold?   Heavier bass is the goal.

Yup, noticeably heavier bass with stock tubes. And with those Sylvania JAN 5814s in the tube power supply the thump gets real. The bass on those actually hits slightly harder than the CBS Hytrons, but the soundstage is more intimate and they lack some imaging and treble detail in comparison. Midrange is almost equally gorgeous though.

 

[Galm]

Yup. And to my ears the gold pin tube upgrade in the amp made all my other ps tubes sound more flat. Not a fan.

To be honest, I upsold myself all the way to a WA22 with holy grail tubes and LCD-4s and I still sometimes miss the sound of my WA7tp with CBS Hytrons and LCD-Xs. In fact my WA7 is in its box in my closet waiting for when I move to a bigger place to use it in an office. I'll never get rid of it no matter how much I upgrade my new rig. It's just so good.

I see some of the CBS ones but the label looks blue. Those labels were machined differently? Red seem hard to even find pics of.

Are there any good tubes that are actually possible to find lol?

I'm waiting for Woo to respond on whether I can buy the psu later or not.

 

[Priscilla Rose]

https://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/preamp/products/copy-of-2-7316-holland-pair-7316-12au7-amperex-bugle-boy-holland-used-good-1959

These are widely considered to be the very best though I don't know how they sound on wa7.

Like I said, they cost.