[skilpad]

Re: TheSloth comment about the BUF634, they have been using this device for a long time even the Wadia 6 (the original one box unit) used them, they do however use a custom I to V converter module on the 861.

Re: Alwayswantmore questions, No I have not tried different cable’s. The only headphone amp’s that I have use were of my own design that makes it difficult to compare to other well-known designs out there. So far the performance gains attained from using a dedicated external amp were less than 10%. (My amp’s still needs a lot of work

)
Just a note on output impedance of the Wadia (BUF 634) the output stage of the BUF634 impedance is not quit symmetrical the –V side has a slightly higher value than the +V side, For Tamb = 25 deg C and Vsupply = +/-15V with Vsignal = +/-13V
Iload = 200mA we get Zout of +/- 17.5 Ohm.

Please note that his excludes the series resistance of any other components that might still be in the signal path i.e. output relay’s headphone cable.

When using the output of the Wadia to drive a headphone directly via the balanced output of the unit the transducer inside the headphone will be connected between the two output stages of the BUF634’s that implies a Zout of 2(17.5 Ohm) or 35 Ohm
The output voltage swing however will be double that of a single ended output.

The best sound achieve so far were when the output level were adjusted so that loud but still listen able levels were achieved with the digital attenuator set at 90 or higher.
With levels below 80 the sound simply collapses, (good for background listening but not for critical evaluation).

 

[practitioner]

Your having a very nice journey here arn't you?

had a feeling from your earlier threads (Aria +ER4P) that you might go down the HD650 route.

Give them plenty of time...

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth Edit: My K701's are too new to comment really at this point, and they are single ended compared with my balanced reference

When I listened to my 601s balanced thy exhibited some harshness and became more forward than ever. but it wasnt a good forward, it just became brighter and the top end wasnt very clean and smooth as I would like. Let me know if you get a similar experience with the 701s.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 When I listened to my 601s balanced thy exhibited some harshness and became more forward than ever. but it wasnt a good forward, it just became brighter and the top end wasnt very clean and smooth as I would like. Let me know if you get a similar experience with the 701s.

What did you listen with? I thought you didn't have a balanced amp?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by practitioner Your having a very nice journey here arn't you?

Yes. The weird part of this is that I stumbled onto this site while looking to upgrade ear-buds for a G5 iPod. So thanks to headfiers for turning me on to a wonderful world beyond 2ch.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skilpad ...the output stage of the BUF634 impedance is not quit symmetrical the –V side has a slightly higher value than the +V side, For Tamb = 25 deg C and Vsupply = +/-15V with Vsignal = +/-13V Iload = 200mA we get Zout of +/- 17.5 Ohm. )

This is a bit technical, so please let me know if there are any implications for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skilpad When using the output of the Wadia to drive a headphone directly via the balanced output of the unit the transducer inside the headphone will be connected between the two output stages of the BUF634’s that implies a Zout of 2(17.5 Ohm) or 35 Ohm

Stereophile measured 830s balanced impedance at 15 ohms??? (link in sig)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skilpad With levels below 80 the sound simply collapses, (good for background listening but not for critical evaluation).

I assume this is because of attenuation in digital domain? My user manual says 70% or higher, which is three LEDs. I believe this to be -12 or -12.5 db.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skilpad ...connected between the two output stages of the BUF634’s that implies a Zout of 2(17.5 Ohm) or 35 Ohm. The output voltage swing however will be double that of a single ended output.

From Stereophile's 861 review" "The Wadia's output impedance was a low 58 ohms from the unbalanced RCA jacks, this doubling as expected from the balanced XLRs. (Because a balanced connection has a separate driver for each phase of the signal, the drivers impedances appear in series and must therefore be added to get the overall output impedance.)"

Looks like the 830 measures lower impedance at Zero and 15 ohms. I'm not technical enough to know if this matters, just sharing the specs

 

[arnesto]

I have a question.

When you connect the balanced cable directly to the output of the CD player.

How do you change the volume level? If you can't change the volume it could potentiall be too loud or too quite. Right?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnesto I have a question. When you connect the balanced cable directly to the output of the CD player. How do you change the volume level? If you can't change the volume it could potential be too loud or too quite. Right?

Most people think of Wadia as a high-end CDP. But as I've gotten to know my unit better, it's really much more...

For starters, it's a digital line stage. In fact, Wadia recommends for best sound you remove the line stage / preamp from your playback chain. I've read several articles confirming benefits of this approach. (I use my 830 as a line stage in my 2ch system).

It's also a DAC. And depending on the model (or options), the DAC can be driven by external sources. In my case I use the DAC for DVD audio, and I am also using an external source to burn-in my 650s/BD as not to put excessive hours on Wadia's transport / laser. While I have not done the research, I assume the DAC could be used from a computer or even Apple's AirPort Express??? -- something I hope to explore at a future date.

Lastly -- as I now discovering -- it's a very suitable balanced (or single-end) headamp. While I make no claim it is as good as dedicated balanced headamps (which I have not heard) -- the sound is very detailed, open and natural. And while I lack experience with highend headamps, I do know good sound when I hear it, and this config sounds very good.

Back to your question on volume...

Wadia controls volume in the digital domain. In other words, they manipulate bits to attenuate the volume. So yes, you can adjust the volume. But they take is one step further...

They also have an internal DIP switch allowing mechanical adjustment of the output level, so you can system-match gain.

In addition they upsample to a longer bit length for the digital signal, which allows you to adjust volume in the digital domain -- at least to a degree -- without loss of resolution.

Stereophile has reviewed both the 830 and 861, and addressed Wadia as a line stage if you want their opinion.

P.S. One other advantage: The Wadia remote allows you to adjust volume / tracks from your listening chair. A benefit not offered by most traditional audiophile headamps.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Burn-in: ~140 hours

Tweaks

Substituted stock AC cord for the one pictured below. Manufacture claims it suppresses RF. Heard subtle improvements in resolution.

I am also using a ceramic cone under the transport, and two rubber isolators on the side/back.

No more dedicated burn-in

I've wanted to keep hours off the laser / transport, so when not listening, I’ve been driving 830’s DAC from an external source. Last night the 830 got moved to my media room. Additional hours will now come with headphones on and a smile on my face.

I'm still planning to go to the meet in Nashville.

 

[arnesto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Back to your question on volume... Wadia controls volume in the digital domain. In other words, they manipulate bits to attenuate the volume. So yes, you can adjust the volume. But they take is one step further... They also have an internal DIP switch allowing mechanical adjustment of the output level, so you can system-match gain. In addition they upsample to a longer bit length for the digital signal, which allows you to adjust volume in the digital domain -- at least to a degree -- without loss of resolution. Stereophile has reviewed both the 830 and 861, and addressed Wadia as a line stage if you want their opinion. P.S. One other advantage: The Wadia remote allows you to adjust volume / tracks from your listening chair. A benefit not offered by most traditional audiophile headamps.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnesto Thanks for the explanation.

You're welcome.

Additional detail on Wadia's digital and mechanical volume controls...

Wadia's digital volume control only maintains full resolution to a point -- about 70% of max volume. When you go below that level, the manipulation of bits degrades SQ.

My unit also has four internal (mechanical) volumn settings. The idea is to set the mechanical setting low enough that your normal listening is 70% or louder (of the potential volume).

I've been going back and forth between the lowest and second to lowest mechanical settings. Based on my experience, studio recordings do fine at the lowest setting, but the lowest level has barely enough gain for some audiophile recordings (because they have a wider dynamic range). On the other hand, when I go to the next higher setting, much of the studio stuff gets pretty loud at the 70% mark.

As of right now I've set my unit to the lowest setting, hoping to extract the best resolution from commercial recordings (also places a ceiling on max volume to help tame my desire to crank it up

).

Here's an excerpt from a technical bulletin...

830 Directly Driving a Power Amplifier (or in my case, headphones)

For best performance, the volume indicator should display seven or more red LED’s when listening at your normal level. If the Wadia 830 is already operating at this volume during your listening sessions, adjustment of the analog output is not necessary.

If you find that the W830 is operating below the ideal listening level of seven or more LEDs, the analog output level of the W830 should be adjusted to match the overall sensitivity of your amplifier/speaker combination. Turn to page four for instructions to change the output level.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Burn-in: ~150 hours

I want to post additional impressions prior to hearing other rigs at the upcoming meet in Nashville...

Based on a few PMs, and extensive search on the forum, I went into this purchase knowing that 650s driven in balanced mode can be magical. I am finding the magic, but only to a point...

With my best live cuts and some well engineered studio tracks, this rig does have a certain magic. The soundstage is wide, imaging good, and there's enough detail to render a pleasurable listening session. But the sound is very smooth, mellow, and possibly a bit rolledoff in the high-end. It's like the image or presentation of the music takes place in my head, yet the character of the sound from the musicians is coming from a much greater distance away, hence the rolled-off highs.

In my original impressions I drew an analogy to a Lexus ES 330 -- smooth and quiet. I'm now wondering if I might not be better off with a little more road-feel and tighter suspension: Maybe a BMW 3 Series or the new Lexus IS might be a better fit?

To the extent I seek more edge, there are three variables for me to consider:

1.) The Wadia is known to have a smooth sound, with possibly some roll off in the highs. So part of what I'm hearing may be attributed to the source/amp. I am not in a position to go for a new amp, so the Wadia will remain a constant.

2.) I choose the Blue Dragon v2 based on a few great reviews and a reasonable selling price. The BD is reputed to be less edgy than say the Zu or Silver Dragon. I'm thinking I might need to give one of these cables a try before finalizing my decision.

3.) There's also a chance that switching to K701s or some other phone I have not heard may be the answer. But again, based on a few PMs and related comments, I have the impression that a balanced 650 can top a single-end K701 (based on very limited feedback: some readers report the 701s do not appear to scale as well in balanced mode).

My 30 day evaluation period comes to a close next week, so hopefully I'll get a chance to try the K701s and a few other 650 configs this weekend in Nashville.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore I choose the Blue Dragon v2 based on a few great reviews and a reasonable selling price. The BD is reputed to be less edgy than say the Zu or Silver Dragon. I'm thinking I might need to give one of these cables a try before finalizing my decision. There's also a chance that switching to K701s or some other phone I have not heard may be the answer.

Based on your «complaints» your own analysis and considered solutions appear plausible to me. If you're ready to invest any further in the HD 650 I'd suggest the Zu Mobius which IMO is the HD-650 cable with the best focus and treble definition -- supposed the Blue Dragon is really that much duller than it (I'll let others who know both comment on this). Otherwise the K 701 is a logical alternative.

Good luck!

.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

"You like me, you really like me!"

OK, so it's not 1985, and I'm not Sally Fields accepting her second Oscar... but my Wadia did get good marks from attendees at yesterday's meet in Nashville. Follow this link for all of the comments.

Notes:

I ended up adding 6 db gain to Wadia's internal settings for the event. This was needed to compensate for the higher ambient noise level. [There is still 18 db more headroom in reserve, for anyone driving cans with low sensitivity.]

I am 100% sold on balanced. In terms of size of sound stage, no single-ended rig even came close to the balanced Wadia.

I am also committed to trying at least one more balanced cable before settling on the BDv2. I'm looking for more resolution, and maybe a bit more sparkle in the high-end.