[roy_jones]

Having been away from the world of portable audio for a few years, it's amazing how quickly the market for IEM's has grown. There have been a ton of new companies that have entered the mix.

There are affordable customs available like the Livewires, Freq, etc... but from what I've read, they aren't necessarily superior to universals at the same price point.

I don't understand why there hasn't been a company that's developed a custom that can compete above it's weight-class. The 3rd party custom IEM makers seem to be utilizing the type of technology that would allow them to be able to do so. They've got triple-driver combinations, etc...and would seem to have access to the same basic technology as companies like UE and Westone.

Can anyone offer perspective as to why this potential vacuum in the market hasn't been filled? Is it a technical thing? Perhaps there is more to engineering a high-end custom than I am aware?

 

[VoLTaG3]

Wait for the new JH custom IEM's coming out soon. The JH13 PRO which will cost $1,099 should be more detailed than the top custom earphones out now ( UE-11/ES3X ). I'll be getting a pair of those depending if they live up to the hype.

 

[ClieOS]

Having access to the same basic technology doesn't mean having access to the same quality of material. One thing that UE and Westone are capable of doing is to custom order their own transducers because of their high volume order and the premier price they are willing pay. If you are a small company offering products that cost much less, you can only afford what already are on the manual, but not the chef special.

 

[ilney]

The key here is "basic technology." Honestly, if one company knows the basic technology to make custom, it knows nothing at all.

It's like trying to follow the chef on TV: add sugar, add vinegar, cook for xxx minutes. Simple.... NOT. Our dishes and theirs are always world apart

 

[roy_jones]

Interesting stuff- I knew that I was missing on something!

It makes me wonder whether the service of re-molding a universal into a custom, provided by a couple of places in asia, may get around some of the proprietary issues involving specific technologies available to the major players like Westone and UE.

I'm sure there are proprietary methods that are probably under-appreciated even in that process, though. The cooking analogy is a good one...

 

[shigzeo]

i can attest that customs are much better than universals for the reason that the mould fits the ear - this creates vibrations that are undamped that the universal can never create.

i have both the sa6 and the custom iem from sleek and the custom is much much better in every way. i have owned se530, ck10, um2, pfe etc. the custom is by far the best of the bunch and hits way above its 300$.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i can attest that customs are much better than universals for the reason that the mould fits the ear - this creates vibrations that are undamped that the universal can never create. i have both the sa6 and the custom iem from sleek and the custom is much much better in every way. i have owned se530, ck10, um2, pfe etc. the custom is by far the best of the bunch and hits way above its 300$.

But if there was all there was to it, wouldn't it be possible to buy a UM56 and get most of the way to the sound quality of the ES3X?

What I mean is, if it's primarily the damping properties of the custom mold, wouldn't getting a custom tip be close to the same thing (assuming same drivers/technology, for sake of argument)?

I was reading Flavio describe the reason for the improvement between customs and universals, and I think he stated that the custom's ability to separate each driver into their own "sound-tube" alone part of the canal section was the primary separating feature....

 

[shigzeo]

well my sleek are single driver customs - im sure that the separation does something for phones that have multiple drivers, but i have no idea how much. true customs have no seems either. custom sleeves will still depend on original driver placement and have a joint between the unit and the mould.

also, hard acryllic along the entire sound tube is great - there are no cheap echos anywhere.

 

[VoLTaG3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif well my sleek are single driver customs - im sure that the separation does something for phones that have multiple drivers, but i have no idea how much. true customs have no seems either. custom sleeves will still depend on original driver placement and have a joint between the unit and the mould. also, hard acryllic along the entire sound tube is great - there are no cheap echos anywhere.

Sooo. Being that IEM's like the Shure SE530, Westone 3 and UM3X all kind of sit in your ear and look somewhat like custom earphones they still can't provide a somewhat custom sound? Damn....You make me want to buy custom earphones now!!! and not wait till my 18th birthday so my ear canal reaches it's final shape until 4 more years.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if there was all there was to it, wouldn't it be possible to buy a UM56 and get most of the way to the sound quality of the ES3X? What I mean is, if it's primarily the damping properties of the custom mold, wouldn't getting a custom tip be close to the same thing (assuming same drivers/technology, for sake of argument)? I was reading Flavio describe the reason for the improvement between customs and universals, and I think he stated that the custom's ability to separate each driver into their own "sound-tube" alone part of the canal section was the primary separating feature....

I think you may be referring to p0wderh0und23 (on 14th May) from Westone rether than Flavio from Earphone Solutions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Powderhound: Is there any sonic difference between the UM3X and the ES3X? Assuming I can get a good seal with a universal, which I can with UM2's and any of several tips, is there anything different/better about the ES3X? Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0wderh0und23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh yeah. There is anytime you go from a universal to a custom. Main reason is the opening of the sound tube. On universals (we'll use the UM3X) you have multiple drivers using the same sound tube, which is also a little smaller in diameter to accommodate more ear sizes. When you go to ta custom, each driver or driver package has it's own sound tube inside the canal portion of the mold. These sound tubes are also larger in diameter, then at the end of the canal the sound tube is "flared out" so that the frequencies mix right before they get to the ear drum, allowing better clarity and dynamics. So if you were to test both on a machine, they will look almost identical, but once you listen to them you can really tell the difference. Now everyone's ear is a different shape, so the actual canal portion can be different. On some folks with a smaller ear, it will be one large sound tube through the canal.

 

[charlie0904]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting stuff- I knew that I was missing on something! It makes me wonder whether the service of re-molding a universal into a custom, provided by a couple of places in asia, may get around some of the proprietary issues involving specific technologies available to the major players like Westone and UE. I'm sure there are proprietary methods that are probably under-appreciated even in that process, though. The cooking analogy is a good one...

i was introduced by my local music shop that offers this service, also adding additional drivers to present universals eg. se530 to a 4 driver. built and QC quality issues was my main concern too. they use hard acrylic and es2 cable.

managed to "squeeze" in a custom pair. sound of a custom really blow me away. I am doomed.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you may be referring to p0wderh0und23 (on 14th May) from Westone rether than Flavio from Earphone Solutions:

In case anyone wonder why Westone or any other company don't use multiple sound tubes on their universal IEM like those found on UE, the reason is simple: UE actually owns the patent on that design under Jerry Harvey's name.

 

[qusp]

funny; I still prefer W3 and SE530 to TF10 though

as for the OP; I think the ability to tune each crossover and the placement of each tube in the custom mould is another reason for full customs being superior to high end universals with custom tips. cant wait to hear the difference for myself soon

 

[Bolardito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif funny; I still prefer W3 and SE530 to TF10 though as for the OP; I think the ability to tune each crossover and the placement of each tube in the custom mould is another reason for full customs being superior to high end universals with custom tips. cant wait to hear the difference for myself soon

Yes waiting for that review. UM3X + UM56 vs. ES3X. I know the latter will sound better (for the above stated reasons) but should be interesting how close on can get wit the custom tips to the full custom IEM.

 

[lisztian420]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolardito /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes waiting for that review. UM3X + UM56 vs. ES3X. I know the latter will sound better (for the above stated reasons) but should be interesting how close on can get wit the custom tips to the full custom IEM.

WOw... that is cool! DO you know who is actually doing this review?? Where can I find it?? Thanx!