[LFC_SL]

I ditched Sony after getting a HD3...way back now it seems (but not that long as Sony update their lines every 6 months - another bad point). SS was terrible, and a hassle to set up for 2 PCs - I never could, and gave up

I don't care if newer versions of SS are better. I now only go for DAPs that don't need software, or support Rockbox.

Do Sony still not support EQ and gapless on anything not Atrac on their DAPs? That was the case with the HD3. (I am aware MP3 is not natively gapless, but there are various work arounds)

Plus, ever since I ditched Sony, my music sounds better. Everyone know's Sony do something to the bass...but it's like they've also put a pipe around your ears too...everything is now so clear on my Archos XS202s and X5

 

[m_memmory]

When I started looking for my first ever DAP (about 1 year ago) I did look at Sony players due to having adored my Sony PCDP that I'd had for the previous 3-4 years. For me battery life was one of the most important things as well as ease of use for transferring all my music (mainly MP3)

I borroed a mates older Sony DAP and .... well - we all know how awful Sonic Stage was. Other then the amazing battery life there wasn't really anything that it did that pleased me.

Then one quick search later and I found the Cowon players. UMS so easier transfer of files and much more support of codecs. Looking at the X5L was what finished it for me - the battery life of that was wonderful.

Hearing that Sonic Stage has been fixed, well I guess that just means that when I'm looking to upgrade might mean they get a look but it just seems that they've been trying to play catch up in an area where it's not easy to catch up when you've fallen so far behind

 

[D555]

In the USA at the present time, just try to find one.

The "Bean" is going away, the "Core" is going away. There are no Sony HD players (other than old stock) to be found.

The new line of flash players are coming (I assume) but any word of the NW3000 or similar?

Paul

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Febs No, instant transfer of lower-bitrate atrac files to your Sony player and no other. ??? if you already have an mp3 file, you just enable "keep file as original" and transcoding to atrac will be bypassed enabling instant transfer, i do that all the time, as most of my music is in mp3, plus you can burn cds directly in sonic stage for your car stereo, which i use on a daily basis as well no disrespect, but you either haven't used sonic stage or don't know how to use it

Well, likewise no disrespect intended, but I am aware that SonicStage can support .mp3. However, you miss my point. This discussion started as a discussion about atrac being a proprietary format. You suggested that the solution is to use atrac lossless, which can be tranferred to lower-bitrate atrac:

Quote:

solution use atrac-lossless same quality as flac and instant transfer of lower-bitrate atrac files to the player of desire,

The rest of your post went on to extol the virtues of atrac (i.e., hardware decoder means better battery life). I was responding directly to that post which was about ATRAC, not mp3.

As you pointed out earlier, the Sony player is built around ATRAC. It has a hardware decoder for ATRAC. It can do gapless playback only when using ATRAC. Sony has finally allowed support of other formats, but the fact remains that Sony players are optimized for ATRAC, and I simply have no desire whatsoever to use a proprietary format.

 

[astranovus]

ok febs, i understand what you mean now,

but with e.g. atrac-lossless 256kb/s, you get to play a lossless file on your pc, instant transfer of atrac 256kb/s on to your dap and if you needed to you could convert atrac-loss back to wav,

so here you would get the best of three worlds,

all dap solutions need to be customised

e.g. flac, dap needs to run rockbox
alac, you need itunes
atrac-lossless- sonic stage

the problem with flac and alac is if you code lossless on your pc, you need to transcode to aac or mp3 in order to save space on your dap,

atrac-lossless does not need this step,
this is a huge advantage that no other codec has!!!!

nobody can tell the difference between 256+ codecs and cd-quality on the run, but you will see the difference in battery-life due to the dap having to buffer less

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by astranovus e.g. flac, dap needs to run rockbox

Not a problem for me, as I no longer use players unless they support Rockbox! (I'm involved with the Rockbox project, so, obviously, I'm a Rockbox fan.)

I understand your points, but your original question was why people don't suggest Sony DAPs, and I gave you my perspective. IMHO, Sony is repeating many of the same mistakes that it made with BetaMax.

You know, one thing puzzles me about Sony, and that is its failure to leverage its multiple business lines. One of the reasons that Apple is so successful with the iPod is that Apple has vertically integrated its product line by selling both the player itself and the content for the player. Sony is probably the only major DAP manufacturer that can compete with Apple in this arena, yet it hasn't done so. Sony could really give the iTunes Music Store a run for its money if it made the Sony/BMG catalog available for online purchase in ATRAC format. It could be enormously popular, especially if it allowed a user to purchase ATRAC lossless and convert to lower-bitrate ATRAC for use on portable devices. Instead of fostering a synergistic relationship among its product lines, however, Sony instead chose to cripple its own consumer electronics products under the guise of preventing piracy. Sony could have dominated the DAP market, but when opportunity knocked, it wasn't listening.

 

[dvallere]

Febs, isn't Connect the Sony version of iTunes? Certainly everything I've downloaded from Connect has been atrac.

Otherwise I'm with you (Febs) all the way on this one. I've been an MD user since 1997 and when I finally gave up on MD I was automatically "stuck" choosing a Sony dap to replace it, or so I thought (because of all the Connect songs I'd downloaded). Then I learned how to burn them to CD as a .mp3 and rip, so the entire world of daps was available to me at that point.

My first dap was the Zen Sleek and I happily put all my music on it, even the converted Connecties.

But now the DRM'd stuff I've downloaded from Napster for the Sleek is incompatible with the Sony machines!

I just do not like the idea (Apple or Sony) of trying to force people into a proprietary format. If Apple made iPods compatible with Napster and the other Plays-for-Sure devices, I'd be on an iPod in a heartbeat, but I refuse to commit to another "niche" music format.

Add to this my dissatisfaction with Sony support over the last few years - which is the reason I dropped MD - and that is why I never suggest Sony anything.

D.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvallere Febs, isn't Connect the Sony version of iTunes? Certainly everything I've downloaded from Connect has been atrac.

Hmm. I'll have to look at that (just to satisfy my own curiosity). I haven't ever heard of it, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about DAPs. If it is a Sony version of iTunes, it hasn't been very well publicized.

 

[Chri5peed]

Some people just don't like Sony.

 

[YamiTenshi]

I like drag-n-drop and external hard drive. Oh, and Rockbox is nice too. If Sony came out with the equivalent of the iRiver H100/300 with a bigger hard drive and 30+ hours of battery life I would buy it.

 

[rockin_amigo14]

is the Ax000 series available in the states?

 

[dvallere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs Hmm. I'll have to look at that (just to satisfy my own curiosity). I haven't ever heard of it, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about DAPs. If it is a Sony version of iTunes, it hasn't been very well publicized.

Evidently you've not purchased a new Sony product in the last 3-4 years, then; they always include a gift card for free Connect downloads in the box (even in, for example, the new DVD-RW drive we bought for our mediacenter). If you look at your left-hand tab in SonicStage, one of the options is "Music Store" (I think - been a long time since I deleted SonicStage).

 

[dskywalker]

I like my HD5, and I think it's still the best sounding mp3 player (headphone out) I've ever tried. I have had iPod mini, 4G, 5G, nano, shuffle, rio karma, rio carbon, vaio pocket and zen visiom m. The weird thing is, after I got my HD5 back from cracked button repair, suddenly it sounded even better than before. I had to sell it though, in the end, because it doesn't support full chinese character set. I'm still waiting on the next sony hdd player.

 

[dura]

For nearly two years now I own a NW-HD1, now paired with Shure E4.
I love that thing; soundquality is really great, silky smooth top, no fatigue at all (for me this is very important, but of course YMMV) detailed and musical, I can listen and enjoy it for hours.
Despite the fact that I usually just toss it into my pocket or bag without any protection at all, its magnesium molted body and glass screen are still completely scratchless; try that with an..sorry, nevermind.
Battery life at 256 kbs A3+ is about 16-20 hours in real life use, very good too.
SS 3.4 finally is stable and uch faster, so the only disadvantage left of the player is the use of Atrac, and the not-perfect GUI. I can live with that, for the rest it's all thumbs up, so, like the first poster, I do not understand why Sony players do not get more respect.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by astranovus people keep nagging atrac, what people don't get is that it uses hardware-embedded circuitry to decode, thus saving processor power and enabling much greater battery life, which is why MD players have always been longlife battery beasts. sound-quality-wise AAC, MP3 and ATRAC are all great at very high bit rates, but battery-wise its ATRAC and nothing else.

In which case, why do I get the same battery life out of a Nano at high bitrates that I do out of an NW-A1000 when it claims 20 hour life? Perhaps you might like to do some real tests instead of quoting Sony brochures, no?