[Sherwood]

I want to believe. Seriously, I do, but I just can't seem to make my vinyl rig sound at all like my digital.

I'm running a Rega p3 with the 250 arm and an Ortofon cart into a Bellari VP129 and then into an NAD integrated. My NAD cd player sounds excellent... deep and rich with a wide soundstage and all that nice mid-fi stuff. My turntable sounds little and compressed. The dynamics are smaller, the soundstage is smaller, and nothing sounds as sweet. I've used everything from garage sale vinyl to minty 180 gram pressings, and nothing sounds very close. Even the vaunted midrange sounds kind of squished. I thought a better preamp would do the trick, but no dice.

Am I missing something?

 

[islewind]

Turntable setup is a big deal - have you verified all the setup issues like tracking force, vertical tracking angle, and azimuth? Is your turntable on a rock-solid base?

There are several articles that may be of use for turntable set-up:

one from what hi-fi?

one from Galen Carol

one from Goodsound

...Or you could try a moon-rock stylus.

 

[Sherwood]

My TT was set up years ago by the factory, I bought it when I worked for an authorized dealer. To tell you the truth, I've never invested any time setting it up. I'll give it a shot.

 

[grawk]

There's a reason most sane people gladly switched to cd

 

[Redo]

Well, if you're trying to top digital in most respects, you've got a long way to go. I find Vinyl fun and attractive for what it's worth at the old used gear level. It's a fun sound, large selection of old records, pops, warmth, flaws, and midrange roar.

 

[bhjazz]

The only reason people switch to cd is due to ease of use...and maybe because the tt/pre combo they heard made a big deal of pops and clicks.

Redo is on the right track. It definitely will be a different sound, but I think (islewind's idea of) setup tuning is what you could use. Also: how old is the cartridge? Has it been cleaned? If you think how small the stylus is and consider dust and all that..it could use some lovin'.

Also, as mentioned: tracking force, vertical tracking angle, and azimuth. Jump on out to musicdirect and get a nice Shure tracking gauge with an alignment protractor. The DBS, perhaps? You might try the cartridge alognment tool from turntablebasics.com. It's a whopping $20 bucks and does a nice job.

If you get it set up and still are not impressed...consider a new cartrige. You just may not like the sound of the Ortofon. Grado and Audio Technica make some nice entry level cartridges.

Vinyl definitely takes some time to set up and maintain. Keep at it!

 

[ozz]

when i had my turntable going from a mm to mc made a
big difference in dynamics and as everyone said set up
is very important.

 

[britishbane]

If your CD's sound deep rich and satisfying why would you ever make the switch to vinyl? I say stick with the CD's, youve probably got a much larger library of CD's vs Vinyl.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhjazz /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only reason people switch to cd is due to ease of use...and maybe because the tt/pre combo they heard made a big deal of pops and clicks.

I went digital in 1984 because to me it just sounded better than my Rega Planar 3. In 1984 the 200 quid I laid out on the Rega was a lot of money for me to replace an old Transcriptors TT and the 300 quid I parted with to get my Marantz CD63 11 months later was a major investment. It wasnt a decision I made lightly.

You are right that the lack of extraneous noise was a major bonus, the odd pop and click from my carefully handled LPs worried me far less than the rumble and groove noise that seemed to be constant and was very noticeable on quiet passages and drove me up the wall. Maybe I had (still have in storage) a duff one, but the Rega was such an iconic TT and with the RB300 hailed as such a great (entry level) TT that my disappointment with it was mightily profound.

Paradoxically I am planning to buy a TT again, I already have a Rotel RX303 with phono section ready for it and have been watching for one of the big arse Denons to come across at a decent price, what worries me is that our local vinyl emporium went under and was replaced by a snowboard/ski shop

so finding LPs may be an issue..

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I want to believe. Seriously, I do, but I just can't seem to make my vinyl rig sound at all like my digital. I'm running a Rega p3 with the 250 arm and an Ortofon cart into a Bellari VP129 and then into an NAD integrated. The dynamics are smaller, the soundstage is smaller, and nothing sounds as sweet. I've used everything from garage sale vinyl to minty 180 gram pressings, and nothing sounds very close. Even the vaunted midrange sounds kind of squished. I thought a better preamp would do the trick, but no dice. Am I missing something?

It does sound like your turntable isn't set up properly. Despite it's iconic status as THE budget turntable ( albeit a rather lavish budget these days) there are some fundamental flaws in the design of the Rega.

The most serious flaw is the fact that it has no suspension and no mass which are the two poles of accepted wisdom on plinth design. It's basically a peice of chipboard with a motor bolted to it and a very good arm, the later of which is the reason for it's market beating pre-eminance.

You have to put it on a solid surface isolated from the floor (unless that is solid concrete/stone) otherwise it will sound crap. No bass or soundstage, muffled midrange and spiky treble. This is becuase it's so lightweight that the background noise and vibration coming from it's surroundings will seriously inhibit the arm from doing it's job. A wall shelf like the Target or Apollo ones and a layer of high mass stuff like marble sitting on foculpods underneath will transform it.

The other core problem is with the arm design itself. This is perhaps more contraversial as Rega won't admit it as an issue, but having the arm at a fixed height severly limits how well it can work because you have no way of changing it's Vertical Tracking Angle to suit different carts. Therefore cartridge matching and the thickenss of mats become crucial which is all well and good if you use the stock mat and a Rega cart but otherwise less than ideal.

Cartridges vary in height and even though this may be by 1/4 of an inch or less it has a crucial impact on the sound. Get the VTF correct and you have a wide soundstage and little or no crackle, get it wrong and you have a lot of groove noise and a compressed soundstage.

Goldring 1012/1024/1042 carts are about right but also as overpriced as the Rega is in the USA. The solution is one of the aftermarket VTA adjusters. I have the Michell one which works very well but I am sure there are cheaper ones in the US which are just as good.

 

[Hermitt]

Also make sure of the obvious, that your preamp is set to the same bias as the cart. MM vs MC.

 

[jsaliga]

I really don't understand what is motivating most of these remarks. Regas, particularly at the higher end of their line...P5, P7, P9...are consistently acclaimed in review and after review. Perhaps I am reading the wrong reviews.

And it isn't just reviewers who seem to like these tables, canvass Vinyl Asylum and you find thread after thread of very happy Rega owners. Sure, there are people who do not care for their design, but there are also people who don't much care for other designs such as the VPI Scout. There is no such thing as an audio product that is universally loved and adored by all.

If it were not possible or even insanely difficult to get great performance out of these products it just seems unfathomable to me that so many people would deliberately misrepresent their experiences. Otherwise, Rega as a company simply would not have survived all of these years.

I suppose I will find out for myself, as I have a Rega P7 on the way.

--Jerome

 

[bigshot]

It sounds to me like you're listening to music from the late 70s onward. A lot of the advantage of vinyl is the excellent mastering and mixing of the 50s and 60s. The sound quality of vinyl took a nosedive with the oil crisis in the Carter administration. If you listen to relatively recent vinyl, you might think it's just a bad CD.

See ya
Steve

 

[memepool]

OK to be perfectly fair the lightweight plinth of the Rega is no worse than that of most of the turntables in this price bracket, who after all are hoping for a little of Rega's enviable success.

Rega had to cut corners somewhere in the design because they wanted to produce the best possible deck for the price. They use the same kind of cheap synchronous motor as practically every belt driven design from Linn to Thorens to VPI. The Rega RB250/300 tonearms are widely regarded as the best tonearms available for sensible money and are fitted in various forms to most turntables upto the 5000USD mark...

But the plinth is just a piece of chipboard on the P1, P2 and P3 and a reinforced version on their more expensive decks, which admittedly are still not all that expensive, being at the lower end of most other manfacturers ranges don't forget.

There is nothing wrong with chipboard, it has good sound deadening properties which is why it's used in speaker cabinets but it's not going to compare to the suspended subchassis of a Linn or Thorens or AR deck or the higher mass of the composite plinths on a VPI, Clearaudio or even the ubiquitous Technics SL1200.

You only have to pick it up to know this.

So isolating it properly is the only way you can make up for this and it is more necessarily so than with many other turntables.

As far as the tonearm design goes, again it's built down to a price. The compromises are the plastic stub on the RB250 and bog standard wiring. I can't understand why Rega have never made a VTA add on but Michell,Origin Live and others do and they are not all that expensive being just a threaded washer after all.

I suppose it's because their design philosophy is keep things simple, which is after all a good philosophy to have, as all the tweaking involved with vinyl puts a good many people off. Their cartridges are a brilliant design with a three point mounting to ensure correct alignment. It's just that they are expensive and not always the best bang for buck. Not making it easy for other brands of cart to be optimised on your deck will give your own a head start though I suppose.

Quite suprised actually that an Ortofon cart would be fitted to a Rega arm as I doubt it's a good compliance match. If it's worn out then maybe replacement with an Audio Technica AT440MLA would also be a good idea.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's a reason most sane people gladly switched to cd

While my opinion is that vinyl is clearly worth it, there is some truth to what you say. I takes a full new hobby to get into vinyl - kind of like a subhobbie