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Why do we allow manufacturers to make unsubstantiated claims?

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by Michael103, Jun 24, 2019.
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  1. taffy2207
    It's amazing what you can do with Snowballs and Currants :thinking:
    bigshot likes this.
  2. TheSonicTruth
    Admins: Please 86 this thread, 'cause it looks like any topical, cogent conversation is beyond hope here!
  3. Sgt. Ear Ache
    you're sort of a serious fellow aren't you?
  4. TheSonicTruth

    Uhh, yeah?

    The topic of the thread looked promising, but actual content? So far, disappointing.
  5. halcyon
    This might be hard for some people to understand, but let's try.

    ... because perceptual differences can only be validated by perceptual tests.

    No amount of objective bench measurements can ever be the same as actual listening.

    Yes, it is possible to measure way beyond human hearing thresholds, masking ability, higher loudness, lower/high frequency range, etc.

    Yet, the perception is a mix of sensory activation + emotions + learned / formed neural networks + expectations + current physiological state + probably tons of other factors we do not even know yet.

    This means, that in good and bad, the human "auditory system" (incl, the cortical parts) is NOT : linear, zero-variant, easily modeled, test-to-test accurate and it clearly is not objective.

    This means, that a person will hear what he/she wants. Another person hears something different. Another what she is afraid to hear. Another one what he is accustomed to hearing. A rare person will hear what he/she has trained himself/herself to hear after thousands and thousands of corrective feedback trials.

    But they are all valid, because they form the basis of the subjective experience of each person.

    Therefor, it is not possible to measure or to even set objective criteria as to what people can hear, because some people will even hear stuff that is in the marketing brochures (placebo) and fail to hear what is in the actual signal if they believe it is not possible to hear it (nocebo).

    The proof is in the pudding.

    For the same reason, we don't only list the mass spectrometer results and chemical composition of wines, but vague descriptions of their taste characteristics and all sorts of stories about region, soil, grape variety, growing conditions etc.

    The joy of experience of listening is in the act of listening, not in reading measurements.

    Yet, with all that said (written), I agree that manufacturers are allowed implicitly to lie all sorts of funny stuff in their marketing material. Even stuff that is objectively (in terms of measurements, not listening tests) absurd and patently false. It would be nice if that didn't exist, but it does and it is very difficult to weed that out of the market, because people fall for it, it works and some even crave it (i.e. the process of being convinced they have done the right choice by selecting this particular product).
    AudioThief likes this.
  6. bigshot
    You stated that in a very polite way.
  7. Sgt. Ear Ache
  8. TheSonicTruth
    There's a time to goof off and a time to be serious. If you havd something to say to me PM it.
  9. bigshot
    I was speaking to Sgt Earache.
  10. TheSonicTruth
    About his questioning my 'seriousness' - therefore I am still part of this line of conversation.

    So Bigshot, what did you mean by "You stated that in a very polite way"?
  11. Glmoneydawg
    So the short answer is yes?
  12. bigshot
    I meant that it was nice of him not to point out how you are trying to control the conversation.
  13. TheSonicTruth

    "Control" this: I was trying to help steer the conversation back to Michael103's topic, after a certain 'Wh..' poster was derailing it into a ditch, thank you very much.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  14. Glmoneydawg
    All hobbies have extremists......and they can...and will purchase things that others don't see the point in.I think if you can make a living serving these extremists and keeping them happy whats the harm?Nobody is being forced at gunpoint to purchase or believe anything.Surely we have bigger issues than things we WON'T purchase?....there ya go...back on track:)
  15. bigshot
    Maybe we like the ditch. Go ahead and discuss away. Just don't tell other people they can't talk about what they want to.
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