[Graphicism]

I think a lot of hostility; jawang, MomijiTMO to name a few simply comes from the idea of recabeling rather than first hand experience. Surely if I spend $300 on a headphone a $20 cable won't make a huge difference and I'm not even going to try incase I damage my headphones.

jawang - Mogami, Canare, Navships are all under $20 and are decent quality cables. You don't need to be a professional to heat up a bit of solder, you're blowing it way out of proportion. The idea that manufactures would have used the best cable is illogical and more money doesn't neccesarily equal more product. The D2000 while your on the subject is a good example; compared directly with a JVC RX700 the $30 headphone had a better SQ and controlled bass. The popular mod that attempts to correct this issue I suppose is also null and void, considering the manufacturere with their expertise didn't think this was neccesary.

 

[MomijiTMO]

I don't mean to sound so hostile. Sorry folks.

[BTW, I've got 2 'quality' cables. Haven't recabled myself yet.]

 

[nullstring]

errr.. as I said guys, he was probably over emphasizing the differences.

I didn't speculate that the D1001 was 90% of the D2000. I merely stated that someone else did.. someone else who was probably exaggerating..

was it that poorly worded?


anyway, my statement is just this, and only this-
There exists headphones in which the stock cable is so bad that a simple $20 in materials recable can improve the headphone's performance significantly.

Nothing more, nothing less.

"then you go on to explain that you used 'huge' instead of significant..."
not instead... you misinterpreted what I said.
Everything is relative. I used terminology the exaggerates the differences in order to keep in the same domain as everyone else's terminology.

Instead of huge, I suppose I should've said "way more than you would expect." It was certainly more than I expected.
I did the whole than as to practice using a soldering iron, and to test whether the whole cable thing was a waste of time or not.

In the end, my results are inconclusive because I found that the stock cable was also poorer than I had expected.

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think a lot of hostility; jawang, MomijiTMO to name a few simply comes from the idea of recabeling rather than first hand experience. Surely if I spend $300 on a headphone a $20 cable won't make a huge difference and I'm not even going to try incase I damage my headphones. jawang - Mogami, Canare, Navships are all under $20 and are decent quality cables. You don't need to be a professional to heat up a bit of solder, you're blowing it way out of proportion. The idea that manufactures would have used the best cable is illogical and more money doesn't neccesarily equal more product. The D2000 while your on the subject is a good example; compared directly with a JVC RX700 the $30 headphone had a better SQ and controlled bass. The popular mod that attempts to correct this issue I suppose is also null and void, considering the manufacturere with their expertise didn't think this was neccesary.

Can you give me a link to places where I can purchase mogami/canare/etc. at a decent length, plus a high end connector, for under $20? Btw, do they come with shielding/sheaths or will I need to add that too? How much will the soldering kit and materials cost (assuming I want a decent kit so I won't run the risk of bad connections)? How much will it cost for desoldering tools (assuming I don't want to manually desolder and run the risk of runoff damaging the driver)? How much time will it take me to do a good job that actually looks aesthetically pleasing? How much money will I lose if I need to use my warranty, but can't because recabling voids warranty?

recabling is seriously not as cheap as you guys are making it out to be. I've recabled several headphones in the past and it always cost me more than I expected. A single high quality connector (i.e. furutech fp704) can run you over $20 if you don't shop around...

 

[haloxt]

I use duct tape on my diy cables instead of heatshrink. I like neutrik connectors, they are around $3-5 each. Then mogami and canare cable are shielded and sheathed 4x conductor cables that go for less than $1/foot, quite cheaper if you buy a lot.

edit: also, very good techflex choices and prices here. I declared war on ebay/paypal because they screwed me over too much but I'd still recommend this seller.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/furrylet...dkw=&_osacat=0

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you give me a link to places where I can purchase mogami/canare/etc. at a decent length, plus a high end connector, for under $20? Btw, do they come with shielding/sheaths or will I need to add that too? How much will the soldering kit and materials cost (assuming I want a decent kit so I won't run the risk of bad connections)? How much will it cost for desoldering tools (assuming I don't want to manually desolder and run the risk of runoff damaging the driver)? How much time will it take me to do a good job that actually looks aesthetically pleasing? How much money will I lose if I need to use my warranty, but can't because recabling voids warranty? recabling is seriously not as cheap as you guys are making it out to be. I've recabled several headphones in the past and it always cost me more than I expected. A single high quality connector (i.e. furutech fp704) can run you over $20 if you don't shop around...

Dude this is what I mean by blowing things out of proportion; navships costs about $7 shipped per 50ft from ebay, neutrik plugs are $2-3 and soldering irons are dirt cheap... I bought a 40 watt kit from ebay for $7 that gets the job done; it melts solder.

You sound like the most cautious person in the world, confined to his bedroom in fear of the door handle exploding on contact. I really think however you're just trying to prove a point, my point being $20, heck $30 and an hour one afternoon can improve your headphones. I don't disagree that an amp or perhaps another pair of headphone will be a bigger difference, it's a cost-ratio question.

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dude this is what I mean by blowing things out of proportion; navships costs about $7 shipped per 50ft from ebay, neutrik plugs are $2-3 and soldering irons are dirt cheap... I bought a 40 watt kit from ebay for $7 that gets the job done; it melts solder. You sound like the most cautious person in the world, confined to his bedroom in fear of the door handle exploding on contact. I really think however you're just trying to prove a point, my point being $20, heck $30 and an hour one afternoon can improve your headphones. I don't disagree that an amp or perhaps another pair of headphone will be a bigger difference, it's a cost-ratio question.

What exactly are you saying? The wire you gave me is hardly superior to stock cable in any respectable headphone (even some IEMs). The $2-3 neutrik plugs you mention aren't even gold plated, let alone high quality. Honestly, imo if a headphone's stock cable is so poor that $20 of materials can improve it, then your headphone itself is probably not worth the recable in the first place.

Also, some headphones might be easy to recable (HD6x0 series for example), but most headphones require a LOT more work than is practical for a DIYers. Some people in this thread even mentioned IEMs, which I find laughable (good luck recabling an IEM with $20).

A great example is the k701, which I actually have went through the trouble of recabling, and it was honestly ridiculous. Taking apart the headphone was difficult to begin with. Next I had to deal with the fact that the headphone was single entry and needed either a dual entry mod or new wire running through to the right-cup's driver. I eventually gave up trying to run my 20awg vamp wire through the metal bars (it kept getting stuck) and decided to go with dual entry. Only, I don't have the necessarily power tools and workshop required to do it properly, so it took me ages and I ended up with ugly frankphone that sounded no better than stock, despite the new high end cable and connector

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif The main reason I feel as confident as I do that headphone cables make a difference is because I've A/B'ed them a lot with detachable cables of very varying quality and always use 10 foot length. I noticed while fooling around with super short cables that they sound more similar when short than when long. If someone wants to test if headphone cables make a difference, they ought to do something like temporarily make their headphone cable 2 inches, and make several 20 foot extension cables of very different quality cables, and keep swapping them.

I used to believe a lot of things. Including that upsampling made my music sound better. I did many A/B tests too and always heard a difference.

Then one day I realized that my old dac (emu0202) was set to 44.1khz output, and thus my "upsampled" music was playing at exactly the same (or worse) quality as standard 16/44.1 music. Since then I've never trusted my ears, I always DBT myself even with headphones, although that one is not easy to do so since many pads feel different :/

Placebo is powerful stuff

 

[Graphicism]

You're not understanding what I'm saying... how will a $7 cable improve a $300 headphone... why does the markl mod better Denons SQ, a piece of cotton wool remove Ultrasones bloated mids, foam in the cushions of JVC HARX to improve soundstage. These are all super cheap if not free mods that improve headphones tenfold, ask yourself; why doesn't the manufacturer do it?

$20 of material to improves a headphone does not render the headphone worthless in the first place... did you mod your D2000s ...or do you also not believe in it?

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Placebo is powerful stuff

2007 November 09 « The Situationist
Quote:

most mental activity happens in the automatic or unconscious region of the brain.

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're not understanding what I'm saying... how will a $7 cable improve a $300 headphone... why does the markl mod better Denons SQ, a piece of cotton wool remove Ultrasones bloated mids, foam in the cushions of JVC HARX to improve soundstage. These are all super cheap if not free mods that improve headphones tenfold, ask yourself; why doesn't the manufacturer do it? $20 of material to improves a headphone does not render the headphone worthless in the first place... did you mod your D2000s ...or do you also not believe in it?

I put cables in a very different category than physical mods (markl mods, kees, etc.). Physical mods produce significant, measurable changes, while cables do not. please prove me wrong, if I am wrong

manufacturers don't do the mods you listed because they don't see the same value in it. To give an example, many people prefer stock denons to markl modded (namely, people who like bloated bass, which is a VERY large population)

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif I put cables in a very different category than physical mods (markl mods, kees, etc.). Physical mods produce significant, measurable changes, while cables do not. please prove me wrong, if I am wrong manufacturers don't do the mods you listed because they don't see the same value in it. To give an example, many people prefer stock denons to markl modded (namely, people who like bloated bass, which is a VERY large population)

I absolutely agree with you based on my experiences with my HD650s (now sold) and SAA Equinox cable. Very expensive and cool looking cable, but I really didn't hear much of anything in terms of improvement.

I really, really wanted to for $200.

But for $1400 HD800s, $1000 T1s, I think Sennheiser and beyerdynamic would be smart enough to pick a cable that would both meet their cost structure and not compromise the quality of the sound.

 

[Seidhepriest]

Headphone makers supply crappy cables because of the basic rule of mass production - costs scale, and cost savings scale. Think of it this way: supplying a decent cable would've cut some workers' salary. And make modders/recabling people suffer, too.

Now as for physics, headphones are driven by quickly varying, modulated current (usually at 20 KHz or higher frequency). That kind of current is going to be affected by interference, conductivity, etc. Cheap cоpper straight wiring will usually make the extremes fall apart - high frequencies & treble/bass will be delayed and smeared, bass because it needs a lot of power, high frequencies because of the quick modulation.

Manufacturers put good quality copper and twisted wires where you just can't do without them, like network cables (working at a much higher frequency than analogue audio). Just as a curio, ripping the wires out of Ethernet UTP Cat. 5 cables and terminating them with miniplug/RCA or mini/mini makes a big difference to a regular store mini/RCA interconnect. You're welcome to try with an amp or powered monitors.

The less the impedance and the less the voltage, the less the effect of recable, but it's still going to be there. 600-ohm, high-current classic K-240 are going to have more of a benefit than 32-ohm AH-D1001 or 16-ohm earbuds.

 

[haloxt]

The main reason I feel as confident as I do that headphone cables make a difference is because I've A/B'ed them a lot with detachable cables of very varying quality and always use 10 foot length. I noticed while fooling around with super short cables that they sound more similar when short than when long. If someone wants to test if headphone cables make a difference, they ought to do something like temporarily make their headphone cable 2 inches, and make several 20 foot extension cables of very different quality cables, and keep swapping them.

 

[Ridleyguy]

From the SAA website - I have no way of proving or disproving this, but it sold me!

"The Sennheiser HD600/580 stock headphone cable is MUCH better sonically than the Sennheiser HD650 stock cable. The HD650 stock headphone cable uses considerably more signal polluting dielectric which degrades the audio signal. If you want to improve the overall sound of your HD650's, change the stock headphone cable to the HD600/580 stock headphone cable. That improvement just scratches the surface as far as how much sonic improvement the E-Series cables offer the Sennheiser HD650, HD600 and HD580 headphones."