Why do so many headphones have crappy stock cables?
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:28 PM Post #63 of 163

Deep Funk

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Some here generalized those preferring a better or at least thicker and sturdier looking cable as people who exaggerate in some aspects, maybe true. Problem is that I'm one of them and as a former fencer, also in competition I once experienced that the springs in all my weapons supporting the (pressure) points in my weapons all failed so that I had to give up on a 5 point match. It was and still is also standard to test the cables connecting your weapons to your electrical vest/jacket because cable/wire distortion or breaking could occur at any moment whatever the circumstances. I would detest it if my standard/stock cable would be so flimsy that it could break/damage/distort just like that, in the blink of an eye.

Therefore cable matters and good cable is worth paying extra for. If my HD428 had better i.e. thicker and sturdier looking cable I wouldn't mind paying more money nor do I appreciate someone generalizing someone like me with my wishes as being too this or that since good gear matters.
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:30 PM Post #64 of 163

MomijiTMO

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This thread has gone to the crapper rather fast.

o___O


Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif
they make a huge audible difference >_<



Huge? Huge to me would be unamped vs amped on my HD650. Huge would be comparing my HD650 to my AD1000. That's a huge difference. My experiences with recabling says it's a minor improvement at best. The HD580 I have sounds a little clearer with a better cable. Not a OMG HUGE DIFFERENCE.

We are all entitled to our opinions but to say cables make a HUGE difference is rubbish to me. To say it makes a difference would be alright. To say it makes a difference for a price I'm happy to pay is alright. To say the difference is only small but an improvement is an improvement after all, would be fine. Not HUGE.
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:40 PM Post #65 of 163
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Huge? Huge to me would be unamped vs amped on my HD650. Huge would be comparing my HD650 to my AD1000. That's a huge difference. My experiences with recabling says it's a minor improvement at best. The HD580 I have sounds a little clearer with a better cable. Not a OMG HUGE DIFFERENCE.

We are all entitled to our opinions but to say cables make a HUGE difference is rubbish to me. To say it makes a difference would be alright. To say it makes a difference for a price I'm happy to pay is alright. To say the difference is only small but an improvement is an improvement after all, would be fine. Not HUGE.



It's a mathematical equation.

Amped $200 ÷ unamped $0 + recable $20 ÷ stock cable $0 = ≈ same difference

Another way of looking at it would be that a $20 cable makes a difference whereas a $20 amp likely would not. A $200 amp would make a bigger difference than a $20 cable but at 10x the price at least is it justifiably huge in price comparison?

Confused yet?
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:43 PM Post #66 of 163

baka1969

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This thread has gone to the crapper rather fast.

o___O



Unfortunately I've come to expect nothing more from these cable threads.
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:53 PM Post #67 of 163

MomijiTMO

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^

I think I'll have to do the same from now one
tongue.gif
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 11:54 PM Post #68 of 163

wali

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The same people who put all their faith in a particular company and their headphone design for some reason feel that the said company can manufacture a great headphone but not a decent cable to go with it.

How absurd is that? Sennheiser or AKG or some other company can design and built classic headphones but for some reason their expertise are not on the same level as some John doe setting in his basement with his radio shack soldering tool and heath shrinks?

Sometimes one can only wonder how such idiocy comes to be but i stick with my OCD theory.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:10 AM Post #69 of 163

nullstring

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Huge? Huge to me would be unamped vs amped on my HD650. Huge would be comparing my HD650 to my AD1000. That's a huge difference. My experiences with recabling says it's a minor improvement at best. The HD580 I have sounds a little clearer with a better cable. Not a OMG HUGE DIFFERENCE.

We are all entitled to our opinions but to say cables make a HUGE difference is rubbish to me. To say it makes a difference would be alright. To say it makes a difference for a price I'm happy to pay is alright. To say the difference is only small but an improvement is an improvement after all, would be fine. Not HUGE.



well, sure, ok, I didn't say HUGE, I said "huge."
Everything in audio is subtle. And to fight against everyone saying everything is significant, I used the word huge.

The point being, the D1001 sound very different with a new cable.
They change the characteristics of the phone. The mid hump is flattened, the treble is extended, the headphone is all around more detailed, and the bass is not muddy anymore, and is replaced by tight, high impact bass (too strong for me at times =/)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/den...-d2000-335557/

He is probably over emphasizing the differences... but I haven't heard the D2000, so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they sound like 90% of an unamped D2000.. since amping does little for the D1001.

I am not really a believer in those expensive aftermarket cables. You shouldn't need 18 AWG cables for your headphones to sound like they should.

However, the cable in the D1001 is horribly poor. After dinner, if you want, I can take pictures on just how small these cables are.
In this case.. and only in this case, I think that cables can make a "huge" difference.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:15 AM Post #70 of 163

haloxt

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The disagreement on this thread goes to show just how little accepted the idea of cable differences is, so we shouldn't expect all headphone manufacturers to do it. I like what Sony did with the R10 cable though
smily_headphones1.gif


Quote:

The Cord and Plug

The cord wires are made of 99.9999% pure, linear-crystal oxygen-free copper to prevent signal loss during transference. A durable, soft silicon insulates the wires, and the insulation is coated in 100 % pure double-woven silk. The OFC plug is double-plated; once with rhodium to prevent signal loss, and the second time with gold to prevent sound quality deterioration from imperfect contact.


 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:16 AM Post #71 of 163

jawang

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's a mathematical equation.

Amped $200 ÷ unamped $0 + recable $20 ÷ stock cable $0 = ≈ same difference

Another way of looking at it would be that a $20 cable makes a difference whereas a $20 amp likely would not. A $200 amp would make a bigger difference than a $20 cable but at 10x the price at least is it justifiably huge in price comparison?

Confused yet?



You guys should really stop assuming that a good recabling job costs $20. Having recabled headphones in the past, I know for a fact that the materials cost alone is more than that if you pick quality components. If you pick cheap run-of-the-mill crap, then why are you recabling in the first place? Stock cables are rarely THAT bad. If you really have functionality problems with your cable then I would sooner take advantage of my warranty than recable.

Nevermind the fact that aftermarket cables are questionably superior to stock cables (especially in high end headphones, which often already have very good cables). Also, the fact that you have to break and then resolder several connections does have an effect, people just like to pretend that doesn't happen. Unless you are a professional exercising good soldering practices, there is an EXTREMELY high possibility that you are actually reducing sound quality by recabling by yourself.


Besides, if you are going to consider DIY recabling, then you need to also consider DIY amps and dacs. A $20 upgrade can get you parts upgrades that WILL make a measurable difference.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:21 AM Post #72 of 163

MomijiTMO

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif
well, sure, ok, I didn't say HUGE, I said "huge."
Everything in audio is subtle. And to fight against everyone saying everything is significant, I used the word huge.

The point being, the D1001 sound very different with a new cable.
They change the characteristics of the phone. The mid hump is flattened, the treble is extended, the headphone is all around more detailed, and the bass is not muddy anymore, and is replaced by tight, high impact bass (too strong for me at times =/)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/den...-d2000-335557/

He is probably over emphasizing the differences... but I haven't heard the D2000, so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they sound like 90% of an unamped D2000.. since amping does little for the D1001.

I am not really a believer in those expensive aftermarket cables. You shouldn't need 18 AWG cables for your headphones to sound like they should.

However, the cable in the D1001 is horribly poor. After dinner, if you want, I can take pictures on just how small these cables are.
In this case.. and only in this case, I think that cables can make a "huge" difference.



What kind of rebuttal is this? Nice straw-man argument there. I said 'huge' but for emphasis of what I object to, I capitalised, bold and underlined it. You've just said everything in audio is subtle, insinuating that the effect of cables are indeed subtle and then you go on to explain that you used 'huge' instead of significant...

Further more, you use one example and seem to place some unknown faith in this one example [the D1001] which I'd assume you've found a difference between stock and recabled. However, you cannot do a proper test to prove the effects of the cable so it doesn't matter. I'll take your word that the D1001 cable isn't the best. If you haven't heard the D2000 I have no idea how you could even speculate that they sound 90% of an unamped D2000. I wouldn't even comment on the D1001 because I haven't heard it.

I'm not having a go at you, just the words you have chosen and the general tone of the post I originally quoted. I don't care if you think it made an appreciable difference or not. I just object to using 'significant' and 'huge' in something you cannot prove. Linking a thread from someone who you even think is over emphasising the differences doesn't help the case. One can compare cables with Senns as they are reversible but the proper way is a DBT, something which we can't talk about in this forum.

smily_headphones1.gif
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:30 AM Post #73 of 163

jawang

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif
well, sure, ok, I didn't say HUGE, I said "huge."
Everything in audio is subtle. And to fight against everyone saying everything is significant, I used the word huge.

The point being, the D1001 sound very different with a new cable.
They change the characteristics of the phone. The mid hump is flattened, the treble is extended, the headphone is all around more detailed, and the bass is not muddy anymore, and is replaced by tight, high impact bass (too strong for me at times =/)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/den...-d2000-335557/

He is probably over emphasizing the differences... but I haven't heard the D2000, so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they sound like 90% of an unamped D2000.. since amping does little for the D1001.

I am not really a believer in those expensive aftermarket cables. You shouldn't need 18 AWG cables for your headphones to sound like they should.

However, the cable in the D1001 is horribly poor. After dinner, if you want, I can take pictures on just how small these cables are.
In this case.. and only in this case, I think that cables can make a "huge" difference.



If anyone in that thread honestly believes that a recabled d1001 sounds 90% like a d2000, they are either delusional or they've never heard a d2000.

You can put a $10,000 TPA cable on a pair of d1001s and they won't sound as a good as stock D2000s. There is no cable in the world that can overcome the fact that d2000s have vastly different drivers and vastly different housing (both of which make a much larger difference than a cable can)
 

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