Why do NOS tubes sound better/why can't they be cloned?
Nov 18, 2004 at 5:29 PM Post #16 of 31

appar111

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I thought that all Groove Tubes did was search out other companies for the tubes, and then select the tubes and put their label on them (at least that's all they did a few years ago when I was still playing guitar). Not that some of their tubes aren't good, but they're overpriced alot of the time, and they don't actually make the tubes they sell, but rather search them out and select them from other companies and label them with their logo.

I've heard Electroharmonix makes some good tubes as well (at least for use in guitar amps), and they aren't too pricey either.


Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ
You need the original tooling to clone them apparently. Groove tubes makes some pricey clone tubes just like you are asking for...

Biggie.



 
Nov 18, 2004 at 8:29 PM Post #18 of 31

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Quote:

Originally Posted by appar111
I thought that all Groove Tubes did was search out other companies for the tubes, and then select the tubes and put their label on them (at least that's all they did a few years ago when I was still playing guitar). Not that some of their tubes aren't good, but they're overpriced alot of the time, and they don't actually make the tubes they sell, but rather search them out and select them from other companies and label them with their logo.

I've heard Electroharmonix makes some good tubes as well (at least for use in guitar amps), and they aren't too pricey either.



That was then, this is now (they do both).

Biggie.
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 8:32 PM Post #19 of 31

Len

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gilardino
Those fart gases in the NOS take time to age.


But a vacuum tube is, uh, a vacuum.
tongue.gif
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:12 PM Post #20 of 31

appar111

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ
That was then, this is now (they do both).

Biggie.



Somehow I doubt it, unless they've opened a huge tube manufacturing plant in California, they're still just slapping labels on tubes manufactured by someone else (i.e. other countries). Not that it's a bad thing-- better for them to select good tubes from a variety of tube manufacturers and then just pass the creme de la creme onto us, I just wish their prices weren't so darned high.
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:23 PM Post #21 of 31

flecom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by appar111
Somehow I doubt it, unless they've opened a huge tube manufacturing plant in California, they're still just slapping labels on tubes manufactured by someone else (i.e. other countries). Not that it's a bad thing-- better for them to select good tubes from a variety of tube manufacturers and then just pass the creme de la creme onto us, I just wish their prices weren't so darned high.



correct, AFAIK all the GT tubes are Sovtek, Svetlana, and Tesla... plus why do they put the damn logo upside down? they look dumb in amps with the logo the wrong way
rolleyes.gif
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:29 PM Post #22 of 31

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Quote:

Originally Posted by appar111
Somehow I doubt it, unless they've opened a huge tube manufacturing plant in California, they're still just slapping labels on tubes manufactured by someone else (i.e. other countries). Not that it's a bad thing-- better for them to select good tubes from a variety of tube manufacturers and then just pass the creme de la creme onto us, I just wish their prices weren't so darned high.


They have the original tooling for mullard 12ax7 and ge 6CA7GE.

"The Groove Tube 'Mullard" type 12ax7 does duplicate the original construction of the Mullard. The folks at Groove Tube had this done in a Chinese plant and the normal tubes the plant sells are not built the same. Compare the tubes and you will see the difference."

edit: here is a link: http://www.groovetubes.com/NAMM2004_04.cfm

Biggie.
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:29 PM Post #23 of 31

appar111

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I can't remember which way they put the logos on... depends on the amp you're putting them in, I guess... some guitar amps like Marshall heads have the tube going in like a light bulb, but other amps the tubes hang down in the back (smaller combo amps). So the logo may or may not be upside down depending on what amp they're going into.
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:34 PM Post #24 of 31

appar111

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ
They have the original tooling for mullard 12ax7 and ge 12au7.

"The Groove Tube 'Mullard" type 12ax7 does duplicate the original construction of the Mullard. The folks at Groove Tube had this done in a Chinese plant and the normal tubes the plant sells are not built the same. Compare the tubes and you will see the difference."

Biggie.



Cool, it looks like they just did this in Jan '04-- that's great that they were able to buy the old machines and formulas... as expensive as some of GT's stuff is, it's still better than paying the NOS price on some tubes-- particularly the Mullard stuff!
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:38 PM Post #25 of 31

NotoriousBIG_PJ

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whoops.

Biggie.
 
Nov 18, 2004 at 9:47 PM Post #26 of 31

Len

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It is unlikely that even tubes built with the same tooling will sound the same as NOS tubes. It's been done time and time again, and every time the modern offerings fall short of expectations. The most recent is the current crop of SED 6550 built to Tung Sol specs. They look the same (and are even branded Tung Sol
rolleyes.gif
) but they do not sound the same.
 
Nov 19, 2004 at 10:39 AM Post #27 of 31

Tomcat

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Isn't there the theory that old NOS tubes sound better because they have aged?

Aging could influence the mechanical properties of the tube. Mechanical stresses within materials and between a tube's components might be changed or reduced in the course of time. And there are those who believe that differences in mechanical resonance behaviour will influence electron flow and have an audible effect.
 
Nov 19, 2004 at 12:45 PM Post #29 of 31

photobob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat
Isn't there the theory that old NOS tubes sound better because they have aged?

Aging could influence the mechanical properties of the tube. Mechanical stresses within materials and between a tube's components might be changed or reduced in the course of time. And there are those who believe that differences in mechanical resonance behaviour will influence electron flow and have an audible effect.



I am envisioning audiophiles going down to the temperature-controlled "tube cellar" to pickout a sweet Tung-Sol to compliment a heavy serving of Jazz.
Younger members may stash away their palettes full of EH's to age into a retirement fund.

Seriously, though, that theory might have validity.....
 
Nov 19, 2004 at 1:50 PM Post #30 of 31

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Older tubes also tend to have microphonic issues...

Biggie.
 

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