why are so few headphones truly neutral?

[Beztis]

like almost every set of headphones out there advertise "STUDIO REFERENCE!!!" but they all either have elevated treble or base.... and only very few headphones are truly neutral, like the HD600 or SRH1540.... i mean i can understand lot of people would find truly neutral headphones boring....but then why does everybody from beats to AKG have to market almost all their headphones as "STUDIO REFERENCE!!!!" ?? 
 

 

[VNandor]

Because STUDIO REFERENCE!!!! sounds professional so people will more likely to buy them.

 

[buke9]

Neutral is a bit boring yes. Some might think Studio Reference means they are hearing how it came from the mixing console of a recording studio and that is very far from what you hear. You hear a lot of people say they don't want anything to color the sound but the sound is colored by every mastering studio on the planet. Most would not like a totally neutral headphone I know I don't . I want to color it till it sounds good to me.

 

[GREQ]

  like almost every set of headphones out there advertise "STUDIO REFERENCE!!!" but they all either have elevated treble or base.... and only very few headphones are truly neutral, like the HD600 or SRH1540.... i mean i can understand lot of people would find truly neutral headphones boring....but then why does everybody from beats to AKG have to market almost all their headphones as "STUDIO REFERENCE!!!!" ?? 

You need to remember a few important things:
 
• Everyone hears differently. The shape of your ears and ear canal directly affect how you perceive certain frequencies. Don't believe me? Pull your ears wider while listening to music. You WILL hear a difference.
 
• Because SCIENCE!!! - technology has only allowed for dynamic, electrostatic, planar magnetic, balanced armature and heil air motion transducers to reach a certain point. 
  In the future, perhaps technological breakthroughs in materials and acoustic design will allow for greater levels of tonal reproduction accuracy.
 
• What is 'neutral'??? - have a read about the 'Harman Target Response Curve' - this is all about a scientific approach to dealing with what humans PERCEIVE to be a neutral/balanced frequency response, rather than a scientific approach to how technology perceives neutrality.
 
• This is important because as mentioned previously, we all hear differently. But more critically neutrality CHANGES depending on the volume/amplitude of the sound we are hearing.
  This means that how we perceive bass frequencies (predominantly) varies greatly depending on the amplitude and is directly affected by our surrounding ambient interference.
  • This is exactly why portable headphones which measure 'flat' sound thin and trebly in loud environments, and portable headphones which are tuned to be bassy or warm sound either slightly bassy or closer to neutral while being worn in a noisy environment. This becomes extremely problematic on airplanes where pretty much every headphone (besides noise cancelling) will sound thin and bassless while fighting against the background roar of jet engines.
 
• Ear size - Headphone companies simply CANNOT design every headphone for everyone. It's not possible.
This is exactly why you will read some reviews on some headphones that TOTALLY do not match the consensus. 
This is often because people with elephantine ears cannot fit their meat-flaps into smaller headphones that are advertised as 'over-ear' which leads them to hear wildly different things compared to the average masses who can fit their average ears comfortably into the average sized design of the average headphone.
This will lead to improper seal which affects bass presentation. 
It will also lead to distance from driver to ear which will affect pretty much everything about the sound presentation. (try this with ANY headphone - even a few mm can drastically change/ruin the sound)
 
• Then there are minor things to consider like head size - bigger heads = more pressure from the headphones = thinner ear pads = shorter distance from ear to driver.
• Hair - some people are bald. Some people have their own climate/ecosystem = various levels of ear pad sealing etc etc which has minor affects on the sound.
• Glasses - can affect ear pad sealing and driver to ear distance and how the headphone is worn (toward the front or back of the ear)
 
 
Now tell me:  Do you think designing a neutral headphone is easy? 

 

 

[buke9]

You need to remember a few important things:

• Everyone hears differently. The shape of your ears and ear canal directly affect how you perceive certain frequencies. Don't believe me? Pull your ears wider while listening to music. You WILL hear a difference.

• Because SCIENCE!!! - technology has only allowed for dynamic, electrostatic, planar magnetic, balanced armature and heil air motion transducers to reach a certain point. 
  In the future, perhaps technological breakthroughs in materials and acoustic design will allow for greater levels of tonal reproduction accuracy.

• What is 'neutral'??? - have a read about the 'Harman Target Response Curve' - this is all about a scientific approach to dealing with what humans PERCEIVE to be a neutral/balanced frequency response, rather than a scientific approach to how technology perceives neutrality.

• This is important because as mentioned previously, we all hear differently. But more critically neutrality CHANGES depending on the volume/amplitude of the sound we are hearing.
  This means that how we perceive bass frequencies (predominantly) varies greatly depending on the amplitude and is directly affected by our surrounding ambient interference.
  • This is exactly why portable headphones which measure 'flat' sound thin and trebly in loud environments, and portable headphones which are tuned to be bassy or warm sound either slightly bassy or closer to neutral while being worn in a noisy environment. This becomes extremely problematic on airplanes where pretty much every headphone (besides noise cancelling) will sound thin and bassless while fighting against the background roar of jet engines.

• Ear size - Headphone companies simply CANNOT design every headphone for everyone. It's not possible.
This is exactly why you will read some reviews on some headphones that TOTALLY do not match the consensus. 

This is often because people with elephantine ears cannot fit their meat-flaps into smaller headphones that are advertised as 'over-ear' which leads them to hear wildly different things compared to the average masses who can fit their average ears comfortably into the average sized design of the average headphone.
This will lead to improper seal which affects bass presentation. 
It will also lead to distance from driver to ear which will affect pretty much everything about the sound presentation. (try this with ANY headphone - even a few mm can drastically change/ruin the sound)

• Then there are minor things to consider like head size - bigger heads = more pressure from the headphones = thinner ear pads = shorter distance from ear to driver.
• Hair - some people are bald. Some people have their own climate/ecosystem = various levels of ear pad sealing etc etc which has minor affects on the sound.
• Glasses - can affect ear pad sealing and driver to ear distance and how the headphone is worn (toward the front or back of the ear)


Now tell me:  Do you think designing a neutral headphone is easy?   

Tyll Hertsens gave a talk at Canlanta and said Dsp will change everything in the next five years as it will take $300 headphones and make them sound like anything out there. I don't know if he is right but just saying.

 

[GREQ]

Tyll Hertsens gave a talk at Canlanta and said Dsp will change everything in the next five years as it will take $300 headphones and make them sound like anything out there. I don't know if he is right but just saying.

Yes, I saw the videos from this talk. 
I personally don't believe that DSP can make any headphone sound like any other headphone - there are too many physical attributes unique to each headphone that directly affect the sound presentation for this to be truly possible.
I think what DSP can achieve is more in the realms of accurate frequency response reproduction or emulation. 
I think it's also possible to use this to trick the brain into believing you're listening to a larger soundstage or even delay certain frequencies to increase the 'size' of the sound or the perceived 'space' the sound is coming from.
 
I don't know much about the details but it's a very interesting subject.

 

[buke9]

Yes, I saw the videos from this talk. 
I personally don't believe that DSP can make any headphone sound like any other headphone - there are too many physical attributes unique to each headphone that directly affect the sound presentation for this to be truly possible.
I think what DSP can achieve is more in the realms of accurate frequency response reproduction or emulation. 
I think it's also possible to use this to trick the brain into believing you're listening to a larger soundstage or even delay certain frequencies to increase the 'size' of the sound or the perceived 'space' the sound is coming from.

I don't know much about the details but it's a very interesting subject.

Yes I'm not sure about it either but there is a lot of stuff coming out that does some crazy things so who knows . Sticking a laser in your ear to accurately fit a pair of Ciem's just think of that in a headphone that can tell it to adjust it to your ears . It's getting crazy out there like I said.

 

[Music Alchemist]

One of the reasons very neutral headphones are hard to come by is because it's a challenging feat to pull off from an engineering standpoint. Most people desire colorations of one sort or another and are not interested in high fidelity anyway, and that's far easier (and cheaper) to cater to.
 
The whole "studio reference" thing is indeed mostly just marketing. Many don't realize that some studios have sets of headphones specifically chosen for how awful they sound, to be used as a point of reference. Then there are pieces of equipment used for other specific reference points. So "reference" doesn't mean much of anything.
 
If high fidelity audio reproduction (of the recording) sounds boring to you, then it's the fault of the recording or just your own preferences, not the equipment.
 
But of course, no headphone is (or ever can be) perfectly neutral. Equalization can make any headphone much closer to neutral, and I consider it to be essential for any serious audiophile. However, it can only do so much. It certainly can't improve things like distortion and transients.
 
The STAX SR-207 with EP-507 pads is the closest I have seen to neutral in a production headphone without DSP or modifications. (Click here to see what I mean. Very few other headphones follow the compensation curves nearly as closely. Even the SR-009 is slightly less neutral overall.) This linear frequency response coupled with low distortion and a rapid transient response give it a realistic portrayal of acoustic instruments. I don't find it boring at all unless I'm looking for skullcrushing bass impact and the like.

 

[buke9]

Audio reproduction is to reproduce what was played. That is almost impossible unless you were there to hear how it sounded in the first place. Every recording is mastered that includes compression limiting and EQ so nothing sounds like it did when the artist played it. Don't want to start something there is just no accurate reproduction of what was played. It all gets colored. My Ether-C's are fairly neutraland they are my favorites. Mr. Speakers Ether Stats are giving the 009's a run for there money also. I might just have to get me a pair of the 207's as I do like the Stax sound. Most of the time when I put on headphones I just want to have some fun with music and enjoy the sound. I leave the good listening for my Polk LSi-15's .

 

[Music Alchemist]

Audio reproduction is to reproduce what was played. That is almost impossible unless you were there to hear how it sounded in the first place. Every recording is mastered that includes compression limiting and EQ so nothing sounds like it did when the artist played it. Don't want to start something there is just no accurate reproduction of what was played. It all gets colored. My Ether-C's are fairly neutraland they are my favorites. Mr. Speakers Ether Stats are giving the 009's a run for there money also. I might just have to get me a pair of the 207's as I do like the Stax sound. Most of the time when I put on headphones I just want to have some fun with music and enjoy the sound. I leave the good listening for my Polk LSi-15's .

 
You're right about it being impossible to reproduce what was there when it happened. As for me, I focus on reproducing the recording accurately, since if there's an issue then, it's more likely to be the fault of the recording. I think all of us would go insane if we attempted the futile quest of reproducing the original sound perfectly for any recording, much less every one. Higher quality acoustic recordings do tend to be a lot closer to the original sound, so I use more of those when assessing the accuracy of a headphone.
 
Yeah, that pair is a great value if you can find one used. I still get basshead urges from time to time, though. And experiencing all sorts of sound signatures is nice. There's no right or wrong when it comes to enjoying music!

 

[buke9]

You're right about it being impossible to reproduce what was there when it happened. As for me, I focus on reproducing the recording accurately, since if there's an issue then, it's more likely to be the fault of the recording. I think all of us would go insane if we attempted the futile quest of reproducing the original sound perfectly for any recording, much less every one. Higher quality acoustic recordings do tend to be a lot closer to the original sound, so I use more of those when assessing the accuracy of a headphone.

Yeah, that pair is a great value if you can find one used. I still get basshead urges from time to time, though. And experiencing all sorts of sound signatures is nice. There's no right or wrong when it comes to enjoying music!

There is no right in wrong in audio so true . Yes most new music is not well recorded they just want to be as loud as they can get. I agree on acoustic music it is closer and what I like the most. I too agree on the Basshead times ; ) I have been saving up for a new amp so the Stax might have to wait a bit but the wife cuts me some slack every now and then.

 

[sgosh]

Let's also not forget the coloration of the sound capture chain of devices, everything from the microphones (selection of those is varied and entirely subjective) to the electronics which carry the faint microphone signal to eventually commit it to some sort of recording.  And that again is coloured by the mixing engineers before it's released to the public.
 
Although I completely understand (and live) the dream of turning my playback gear into what I hope is neutral, my ears and brain are super subjective ... and even moody.
 
Today, for example, I'm really enjoying Charlie Hunter's Return Of The Candyman on nothing more than a super cheap ZHILAI H1 (USB DAC+amp) played through a pair of Polk Audio Buckle headphones.  Anything but neutral.  But highly satisfying!
 
Accuracy be damned ...

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Let's also not forget the coloration of the sound capture chain of devices, everything from the microphones (selection of those is varied and entirely subjective) to the electronics which carry the faint microphone signal to eventually commit it to some sort of recording.  And that again is coloured by the mixing engineers before it's released to the public.
 
Although I completely understand (and live) the dream of turning my playback gear into what I hope is neutral, my ears and brain are super subjective ... and even moody.
 
Today, for example, I'm really enjoying Charlie Hunter's Return Of The Candyman on nothing more than a super cheap ZHILAI H1 (USB DAC+amp) played through a pair of Polk Audio Buckle headphones.  Anything but neutral.  But highly satisfying!
 
Accuracy be damned ...

 
I still find it bewildering how disparate the experience is when comparing being there and listening to a recording. The most notable example for me is an orchestra I performed in that sounded amazing when I was there, but like trash on the recording of it! I blame whoever was in charge of the butchered recording techniques.
 
My favorite ultra-budget model is the Koss KTXPRO1. It easily competes with many three-figure headphones! I'm mentioning it not only because of price, but also because it's another headphone that isn't very neutral (boosted bass, lively treble, etc., though not too far away from neutral) but ends up being highly satisfying. I think there are a lot of affordable headphones out there that can end up sounding better than (some but obviously not all) much more expensive ones when you equalize them effectively.

 

[buke9]

I still find it bewildering how disparate the experience is when comparing being there and listening to a recording. The most notable example for me is an orchestra I performed in that sounded amazing when I was there, but like trash on the recording of it! I blame whoever was in charge of the butchered recording techniques.

My favorite ultra-budget model is the Koss KTXPRO1. It easily competes with many three-figure headphones! I'm mentioning it not only because of price, but also because it's another headphone that isn't very neutral (boosted bass, lively treble, etc., though not too far away from neutral) but ends up being highly satisfying. I think there are a lot of affordable headphones out there that can end up sounding better than (some but obviously not all) much more expensive ones when you equalize them effectively.

Headphones as with all audio is just too subjective. Some like this one others thinks it's crap.

 

[cel4145]

What is 'neutral'??? - have a read about the 'Harman Target Response Curve' - this is all about a scientific approach to dealing with what humans PERCEIVE to be a neutral/balanced frequency response, rather than a scientific approach to how technology perceives neutrality.

+10

This is super important to this conversation, and glad you are trying to educate people.

In the speaker world among serious speakerphiles and pro audio people, many people have experience with speakers that measure neutral, and that has been the traditional definition. It's measurable. It can be experienced. Get a pair of studio monitors that measure neutral and listen nearfield. Assuming you don't have any major reflection issues, you can get really close to understanding what neutral is. Speakers in a living room? Well, that's likely very distorted by the room, although Audyssey and some other room EQ wizards can sometimes get it close, but otherwise one really needs a heavily treated room. That being said, I think fairly neutral speakers well placed in a room with room EQ can often be closer to neutral than most headphones I have heard.

Then lets talk about headphones. Unfortunately, many people on Head-Fi have never heard what a neutral response in the classic sense is, so they call neutral whatever seems balanced to their tastes.

Then I have trouble calling HTRC neutral because it's not really meant to be. It's supposed to be pleasing and balanced. What we like to hear. Yet, people are starting to call it "neutral" but it does not fit how it is defined in the speaker home audio and pro audio world. Let's call it what it is: balanced and preferable.

And then, as you also pointed out, "But more critically neutrality CHANGES depending on the volume/amplitude of the sound we are hearing." A majority of people on Head-Fi have no idea what equal loudness contours are or what that means. So when we try to have discussions about a headphone being "neutral" or not, once you get into discussing nuances of this headphone is a bit bright, or this headphone has a bit of bass emphasis, it's very likely the discussion is clouded by the fact that people listen at different volumes.

So the whole notion of casual conversations about neutral on Head-Fi is often impossible. I think we need to have a lot of conversation about what you wrote to get people even close to ready to talk about neutrality in a way that arrives at something useful based on shared understanding.