[RexAeterna]

i guess i'm only one still playing with these? ohh well. well the damping with stone wool and polyfill made them lot cleaner/smoother but sa5000 still had bit brightness going on which i was fine with, with low level listening. so i had pair of sennheiser hdr100 wireless headset i was given by a family member cause the receiver stopped working..well i looked at them and the thick foam inside looked same size as the sa5000 baffle so i was like ''lets try this and see how it gose''. well it defiantly did tame the brightness down a good deal. still very smooth sounding with good detail extraction. the foam also help perception of bass but probably cause treble been tuned down good bit but still bit lighter than my df's. still good imaging and stereo placement too. these sound bit more neutral...well to me but who knows i can be completely off. thing i like bout the foam of the hrd100 is there is thinner layer for the dome area and it places so well with the sa5000 dome part of the driver.

will take pics later of the foam from the hdr100's and stuff.

 

[the fool]

i am looking to buy this headphone, but it is very hard to find, is there any good deal out there?

 

[obobskivich]

i am looking to buy this headphone, but it is very hard to find, is there any good deal out there?

They're discontinued.

Rex,

Yeah, you may well be the last one of us, but I'll still look at your pictures!

 

[MDR30]

Quote:

I also thought the SA series did not use biocellulouse - user manual says "Nanocomposite" and my understanding is they (and the Qualias) have more in common with the Z1000 and it's kin, than the R10 and CD3000 and that lineage.

 
You may be right, and I may have been fooled by the white texture diaphragms of the SA3000 and SA5000, looking very much like the biocellulose membranes of the CD3000 and CD2000. "Nanocomposite" is a combined material (fibre/filler) on a microscopic level, producing a strong and stiff material. Since companies want to keep its manufaturing processes secret, Sony never told us what materials the SA3000, SA5000 and Qualia membranes were made of.
 
The CD1700 and CD2000 used Vectran as fibre base to the biocellulose, and Vectran is actually a liquid crystal polymer, LCP, which is the material used for the MDR-Z1000 diaphragm. The Z1000 membrane is golden transparent with no visible fibre structure. This may be due to the nanocomposite manufacturing process, melting fibre and filler together.
 
Enclose a few pics of the different drivers.
 
Sony Qualia:
 

 
 
Sony SA5000:

 
Sony CD3000:

 
 
Sony MDR-Z1000:

 

[obobskivich]

I know those pictures aren't absolute (thanks for them!), but I see more texture on the Qualia and SA5000 drivers than on the CD3000. Also, why does it look like there is liquid behind the Z1000 driver?

Anyways, on the Qualia and SA5000, I've heard "crushed glass" used to describe their drivers, and doing a bit of reading on Vectran brought up Zenite, which has a glass fibre filler. and is said to be good for injection molding (and if AKG's Varimotion manufacturing is any indication of how other parts are made, there might be something to that).

 

[Acix]

Quote:

 
You may be right, and I may have been fooled by the white texture diaphragms of the SA3000 and SA5000, looking very much like the biocellulose membranes of the CD3000 and CD2000. "Nanocomposite" is a combined material (fibre/filler) on a microscopic level, producing a strong and stiff material. Since companies want to keep its manufaturing processes secret, Sony never told us what materials the SA3000, SA5000 and Qualia membranes were made of.
 
The CD1700 and CD2000 used Vectran as fibre base to the biocellulose, and Vectran is actually a liquid crystal polymer, LCP, which is the material used for the MDR-Z1000 diaphragm. The Z1000 membrane is golden transparent with no visible fibre structure. This may be due to the nanocomposite manufacturing process, melting fibre and filler together.
 
Enclose a few pics of the different drivers.
 
Sony Qualia:
 

 
 
Sony SA5000:

 
The more I see those drivers together, the more I want to cut the Mercedes logo in the middle of my SA-3000 drivers.

 

[obobskivich]

The more I see those drivers together, the more I want to cut the Mercedes logo in the middle of my SA-3000 drivers.

Supposedly it helps, but I never tried it myself.

 

[Neogeo333]

Its scary just thinking about cutting the middle plastic, the driver is so close.  I doubt it improve that much for such a dangerous procedure.

 

[elwappo99]

 
2. Providing additional mass damping to the baffle.
 
 
 

 
A little old thread, but did you take pics of this? Anyone else try this? 

 

[Anaxilus]

First thought I had as well.  I don't think it would be that hard to get the 'star' out.  Couldn't sound worse at all and am familiar w/ the difference between the 558 and 598 which are more extreme examples.
 
Last I saw the driver specs it was the CD2000 and below which was using Vectran.  The higher you go from CD3000 to SA5000, R10 and qualia the less Vectran is employed if at all.
 
The Z1000 is liquid polymer I believe so that makes sense for it to look like that.

 

[obobskivich]

First thought I had as well.  I don't think it would be that hard to get the 'star' out.  Couldn't sound worse at all and am familiar w/ the difference between the 558 and 598 which are more extreme examples.

Last I saw the driver specs it was the CD2000 and below which was using Vectran.  The higher you go from CD3000 to SA5000, R10 and qualia the less Vectran is employed if at all.

The Z1000 is liquid polymer I believe so that makes sense for it to look like that.

CD3000 and R10 aren't the same as SA3000/SA5000 or Qualia. CD3000 and R10 are biocellulose, SA3/5k (same drivers) are "nano-fiber composite," similar or the same material as Qualia (I've heard the phrase "crushed glass" to describe it - which may imply Zenite). Z1000 is LCP (it's non-descript beyond that, it could be Vectran, or Zenite, etc - even Kevlar could technically classify here (it's very popular with exotic full-size speakers)).

 

[Anaxilus]

I know Vectran was blended into the bio-cellulose of the CD2000 which I owned.  It was not a pure vectran or bio cellulose driver and I know Sony has used it different degrees for their driver material in their model lineups in the past.   
 
Seems like Vectrn and LCP share simliar chemical compositions and properties, the difference seems to be the manufacture/molding process.
 
"Today, LCPs can be melt-processed on conventional equipment at high speeds with excellent replication of mold details. In fact, the high ease of forming of LCPs is an important competitive advantage against other plastics, as it offsets high raw material cost."

 

[obobskivich]

I know Vectran was blended into the bio-cellulose of the CD2000 which I owned.  It was not a pure vectran or bio cellulose driver and I know Sony has used it different degrees for their driver material in their model lineups in the past.   

Seems like Vectrn and LCP share simliar chemical compositions and properties, the difference seems to be the manufacture/molding process.

"Today, LCPs can be melt-processed on conventional equipment at high speeds with excellent replication of mold details. In fact, the high ease of forming of LCPs is an important competitive advantage against other plastics, as it offsets high raw material cost."

Vectran is a type of LCP (it's a trade-name for a specific manufacturer - I forget who, Zenite is another example (from DuPont)), like how Kevlar refers to a specifically marketed and trademarked name (DuPont) for an aramid fabric (which is itself technically an LCP also). LCP is a very broad class of materials, and Sony is very vague with describing what it's drivers are made from.

My understanding is that Sony basically switches between "pure" LCPs (like the Z1000) and composite materials (like the SA5000) depending on the part. It isn't surprising that they would include something like Vectran in a bio-cellulose (which is itself very vague; seriously they're saying "advanced bio-cellulose material" and they could just mean Rayon).

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

 
A little old thread, but did you take pics of this? Anyone else try this? 

 
Quote:

First thought I had as well.  I don't think it would be that hard to get the 'star' out.  Couldn't sound worse at all and am familiar w/ the difference between the 558 and 598 which are more extreme examples.
 
Last I saw the driver specs it was the CD2000 and below which was using Vectran.  The higher you go from CD3000 to SA5000, R10 and qualia the less Vectran is employed if at all.
 
The Z1000 is liquid polymer I believe so that makes sense for it to look like that.

 
Quote:

CD3000 and R10 aren't the same as SA3000/SA5000 or Qualia. CD3000 and R10 are biocellulose, SA3/5k (same drivers) are "nano-fiber composite," similar or the same material as Qualia (I've heard the phrase "crushed glass" to describe it - which may imply Zenite). Z1000 is LCP (it's non-descript beyond that, it could be Vectran, or Zenite, etc - even Kevlar could technically classify here (it's very popular with exotic full-size speakers)).

 
Quote:

I know Vectran was blended into the bio-cellulose of the CD2000 which I owned.  It was not a pure vectran or bio cellulose driver and I know Sony has used it different degrees for their driver material in their model lineups in the past.   
 
Seems like Vectrn and LCP share simliar chemical compositions and properties, the difference seems to be the manufacture/molding process.
 
"Today, LCPs can be melt-processed on conventional equipment at high speeds with excellent replication of mold details. In fact, the high ease of forming of LCPs is an important competitive advantage against other plastics, as it offsets high raw material cost."

 
Quote:

Vectran is a type of LCP (it's a trade-name for a specific manufacturer - I forget who, Zenite is another example (from DuPont)), like how Kevlar refers to a specifically marketed and trademarked name (DuPont) for an aramid fabric (which is itself technically an LCP also). LCP is a very broad class of materials, and Sony is very vague with describing what it's drivers are made from.
My understanding is that Sony basically switches between "pure" LCPs (like the Z1000) and composite materials (like the SA5000) depending on the part. It isn't surprising that they would include something like Vectran in a bio-cellulose (which is itself very vague; seriously they're saying "advanced bio-cellulose material" and they could just mean Rayon).

 
 
You guys have such a hard time staying on topic....
 
 
I just recently acquired a pair of SA3000 and I'm surprised how much I enjoy them. I just want to smooth out the treble a little bit. But, they are a lot more fun and enjoyable to listen to than the SA5000

 

[mrAdrian]

Do you find the ba'ss on the SA3k on the light side? I've mass dampened the baffle and it is much better, although it still doesn't go as deep as I would have wished. Only wishing for it to happen however, as I believe it is an issue with the drivers not the housing.
 
I couldn't take pictures of the inside because with all the dampening materials in it, it is now stuck...