[563]

What I still don't get is why Sennheiser can't simply produce more HE90s, given the obvious pent-up demand for them? Did they destroy all their tooling/machinery for making more? I don't see how it would dilute the "statement" value of the cans, given the price they might charge for them (in fact, anything over 2000 dollars would, IMHO, be statement plenty)...

 

[markmaxx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 563 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I still don't get is why Sennheiser can't simply produce more HE90s, given the obvious pent-up demand for them? Did they destroy all their tooling/machinery for making more? I don't see how it would dilute the "statement" value of the cans, given the price they might charge for them (in fact, anything over 2000 dollars would, IMHO, be statement plenty)...

Sennheiser did make a batch about 5 years ago with spare parts.

about $5,000.00

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca95f /img/forum/go_quote.gif You do not get the meaning of a "statement" product. Any modern Hyundai can beat the crap out of a 1907 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost in every aspect (except longevity obviously), yet the Rolls is worth 57 million dollars while you can get a used Hyundai for less than a couple of hundred...

In drawing that parallel, I would ask you to define context of an iconic statement product.


Headphones? Purleeze.


A modern headphone can't beat an Orpheus for what it is, but the gulf between it and latterday phones in terms of its current asking price does invite a rational comparison.


In case you aren't aware, I have a HE/V90.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif In drawing that parallel, I would ask you to define context of an iconic statement product. Headphones? Purleeze. A modern headphone can't beat an Orpheus for what it is, but the gulf between it and latterday phones in terms of its current asking price does invite a rational comparison. In case you aren't aware, I have a HE/V90.

I haven't listened much to the HE90 but what I heard out of a non-Sennheiser amp sounded good but distinctly colored. I was certainly not convinced that it was as good as the Stax 007's. If so on what technological basis would this be? Stax put a lot of effort into the 007 drivers, making the frames very solid and mounting them in a solid aluminum enclosure. What can one say about the design of the HE90 for comparison? There is is certainly a mystique about them and in their day they were probably the best but now, I am not sure.

 

[immtbiker]

You are absolutely correct. I didn't notice that it was an auction (and I'm not sure what the minimum asking price was). It is not the seller's fault, I stand corrected.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sataii /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why are you making the seller out to be the bad guy?All he was doing was selling it. And the $20,000 wasn't his price. He wasn't asking $20,000 for it. It was an auction. The price was ultimately set by those bidding on it. You might say it's ridiculous for someone to pay $20,000 for it. But the seller had nothing to do with that. se

Quote:

Originally Posted by markmaxx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sennheiser did make a batch about 5 years ago with spare parts. about $5,000.00

In conjunction with Dr. Jan Mieir, he (who is located in Germany, but is really Austrian) he was able to talk Sennheiser to make 5,000 pieces to part with shelf parts (for repairs). they cost $5K each and they soon sold out, I mean really soon, and the good doctor convinced Sennheiser to make another 5000 pairs but they took longer to get onto paid people's hands, because they seemed to have a channel imbalance problem which had to be repaired b4 hiitng th public's hand (errr, I mean heads).

It appears that 10,000 people who had $5,000 extra who "gottawanna',
right se?

So, even though Sennheiser says they lost money on the "90" project on their quest for perfection, amp probably cost them $4k the headphones another $4k.

So $20k is definitely a supply an demand price that netted the seller a Hyundai depending on what he originally paid for it regardless of whether it was an auction or an asking price.

 

[markmaxx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif It appears that 10,000 people who had $5,000 extra,

Wow Aaron 10,000 wow!

 

[563]

Is that 10,000 figure correct? I thought the number of Meier HE90s was substantially lower. But if true, then the HE90s really aren't that scarce after all, and perhaps even more available than the R10s. But something doesn't sound right here ...

 

[Guss2]

Aaron's numbers are way off, like 9900+ off..The first new batch was 18 I believe and I think they made a few above that for the second batch, but nowhere approaching 10,000. Gary

 

[bozebuttons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 563 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is that 10,000 figure correct? I thought the number of Meier HE90s was substantially lower. But if true, then the HE90s really aren't that scarce after all, and perhaps even more available than the R10s. But something doesn't sound right here ...

10,000 fiqure is not correct somewhere in the 30s less then 40 on the Jan Meire batch.
300 origional Hev90/He90 systems where made.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't listened much to the HE90 but what I heard out of a non-Sennheiser amp sounded good but distinctly colored. I was certainly not convinced that it was as good as the Stax 007's. If so on what technological basis would this be? Stax put a lot of effort into the 007 drivers, making the frames very solid and mounting them in a solid aluminum enclosure. What can one say about the design of the HE90 for comparison? There is is certainly a mystique about them and in their day they were probably the best but now, I am not sure.

Absolutely no doubt it's particularly coloured. And some people may not be able to discern the accuracy of the phone beyond the colouring. But the key for me is that they've coloured it in the way which causes least offence to the largest number of people. And that, for me, is a big part of the appeal.


I'm sure down low we all want things to sound 'nice' as well as 'accurate'. Truly few do... it's either/or to a large extent. The HE90 does both (As I discovered, the /V part is actually comparatively little of the Orpheus equation from a sonic character aspect). Not to the extremes in terms of accuracy as some newer headphones out there... but it does enough, and as a package it's still ahead of everything else out there I've owned or listened to in a way that it's hard to nitpick.


...But $15,000? Even $11,000? For a sometimes raggedy (certainly in my original case) old example as a reference price? That is very debatable even given the stature of the HE/V90 in headphone-land. It's like the old Discmen fad that we had a few years back. Fashion, supply and demand within the community. That drives prices, but it's not to say they aren't a little insane. You could look at the rarity, but I believe there are even rarer headphones out there which usually trade for far saner used prices as a percentage of the original.


As far as the O2's build/sound is concerned, obviously you have to live with both to be able to compare between them. I think in comparison despite the far older-school look of the Senns and arguably airier aspect of the O2 arising from the Stax's suspended-on-head nature, the Senn is better engineered from a biomechanical point of view than the Stax from an everyday usability aspect. There's much less variations in the sound depending on how the cushions are fitted, what position the driver is in relative to your ear - because the HE90 allows much less perceived sound variation affected by the variety of fit due to it's design.


I sold my O2's a while back, but picked up a Mark II more recently as I was still hankering for something more accurate than an HD650 as a second set. But personally, it ended up being deja vu of something I tossed up when I got rid of the first O2... the fact is that even I can't really justify its performance and the wearing compromises that are actually made more acute by the substantial alloy construction vs the HD650 (still my main utility phone of choice). At the end of the day I have to admit that while it is definitely superior, there's just too little separating the O2 and the HD650... and this may cause some O2 owners to fume, but I think in comparison to the best-of-the-affordable-dynamics, I think they might actually be poorer relative value as a package than even the used Orpheuses that we've been talking about.


I will probably hang onto the O2M2 until they're worn out (if ever, especially given the minimal use they get these days), mainly to stop myself from selling these at a loss and then be suckered into buying them yet again. I'm strangely optimistic in these matters, so best not to give myself the opportunity to make the same error.

 

[vcoheda]

so only about 350 complete sets (HE90/HEV90) made in total?

 

[Guss2]

300 complete sets, the rest are just phones. I got mine in the original 18 new batch and it's serial #327. Gary

 

[Zanth]

From my understanding they are the second rarest of the "elite" headphones. I'm sure there are headphones somewhere at some time that had less in the production run than the HE90s. Perhaps the Qualias are close to that number also?

 

[purk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif From my understanding they are the second rarest of the "elite" headphones. I'm sure there are headphones somewhere at some time that had less in the production run than the HE90s. Perhaps the Qualias are close to that number also?

I think the Qualia and PS-1 may beat out the HE90 in rarity but certainly not in sound quality, IMO. It is ashamed that Sony management can not continue the Qualia's line up. When you have the right fit, the Qualia is really tough to beat.

I believe the actual number of the original Orpheus system is 300. Senn actually violated the original promise to the orginal owners as the HE90 was not supposed to be available for sale again.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as the O2's build/sound is concerned, obviously you have to live with both to be able to compare between them. I think in comparison despite the far older-school look of the Senns and arguably airier aspect of the O2 arising from the Stax's suspended-on-head nature, the Senn is better engineered from a biomechanical point of view than the Stax from an everyday usability aspect. There's much less variations in the sound depending on how the cushions are fitted, what position the driver is in relative to your ear - because the HE90 allows much less perceived sound variation affected by the variety of fit due to it's design.

Of course you can argue that changing sound characteristics with cushion adjustments is a useful feature to tailor the sound to a user.

I was wondering about the construction of the drivers. Are they like an 007, a Lambda a Koss 950 or whatever?

The market does funny things.I have no qualms about price, people are free to pay what they want.