Which of these is a Grace Design m903 a goof match for?
Aug 3, 2012 at 10:21 AM Post #16 of 26
Again, it's relative. All you're really comparing is sensitivity with this statement, and the 4R are more sensitive.


Yes, it is likely sensitivity. Both companies use different units

Westone = 118 dB for 1 mW
AKG = 105 dB for 1V

The AKGs also are 62 ohms and the Westones are 31 ohm.

Btw, I raised the output volume to max and it has NO change on the m903. It changes the output volume of the IMac internal speakers. No volume control from the iMac is available for the Grace. It is connected via USB.
 
Aug 3, 2012 at 3:15 PM Post #17 of 26
The AKGs are around 93 dB/mW when you adjust that (and based on Tyll's measurements). :xf_eek: That's around half.

And on the volume - oh well, was worth a shot. What I was thinking of is Windows Media Player or VLC or so on, that have "volume controls" which are independent of the system volume or any external device, and you can lower them and lower the volume in that way, and create a scenario where you need to turn gain way up (e.g. I can set the WMP volume at 20%, leave system volume at 100% into my E/90, and have to turn the E/90 way up to get the same level as if I had WMP at 100% (as normal)). Sounds like the Mac actually makes sense here though, and doesn't have a bunch of controls that can screw with that. :)
 
Aug 3, 2012 at 6:13 PM Post #18 of 26
Some more thoughts....

Hi,

Posted a thread wanting to know what headphones to try next being an AKG K 702 owner who also has a Grace Design m903 DAC-Headphone Amplifier. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with this set up. I mostly listen to jazz, some blues and some occasional classical (mostly orchestral). I was looking for a "step up" in performance over the AKGs that would work well with the m903.

What I like about the K702s:

1)- They present a spacious, airy sound stage
2)- They portray detail and subtlety within recordings
3)- they have a fairly neutral timbre to their sound

I am looking for headphones that have a neutral timbre, portray even greater detail than the AKGs but portray the soundstage more precisely. Not every recording is in a large hall so I want the soundstage to adjust to the recording. While I like the effect, I wonder if something does a better job at this?

I have looked at a number of possibilities and have eliminated some offerings from audio technica, denon, fostex, grado , koss, stax and ultrasone.  Their are 4 models of open air headphones between $700-$1,500 that all seem to be well regarded:

Audez'e LCD-2 - $995
Beyerdynamic T1 -$1,399
HiFiMAN HE-500 - $699
Sennheiser HD800 - $1499

Which these will match best to the m903 and meet my sonic desires for neutrality, musical detail and superior imaging and instrument placement? All of these cans are regarded as better than the AKGs but which one do you think is right for me?

Thanks,

Bob
 
Aug 5, 2012 at 9:27 AM Post #19 of 26
Here a few "pros" and "cons" musings regarding these 4 headphones. 

Audez'e LCD-2 - $995 : my main attraction is the flat frequency response and the planar dynamic speed. my main concerns revolve around wearing comfort and past variability/quality issues

+ flat from 20-1000 Hz
+ efficient and m903 should work well
+ high quality build (made in USA)
- heavy headphone and can be hot to wear
- attenuated high frequency 3-4 kHz and > 8 kHz
- past driver, housing quality issues (small company)

Beyerdynamic T1 -$1,399: my main attraction is the resolving detail and imaging of these cans. My concerns have more to do with concerns of listening fatigue

+ light weight and comfortable
+ high quality construction (made in Germany)
+ precise imaging sound stage
- boosted , 100 -300 Hz, spiked high frequency @ 8k, attenuated HF > 12 kHz
- non-detachable cable
- high impedance may be difficult for m903 to drive

HiFiMAN HE-500 - $699: my main attraction like the Audeze's is the flat frequency response and planar dynamic speed. My main concerns are around wearing comfort (heavy), non-stellar imaging and build quality

+ fairly flat 30 Hz - 1000 Hz
+ efficient and m903 should work well
+ detachable cable
- heavy headphone (comfort concern)
- build quality appears to be a notch below peers (made in China)
- somewhat attenuated 2-3 kHz, 5-6kHz, spiked @ 8k and roll off @ 15k

Sennheiser HD800 - $1499: my main attraction is the speaker like imaging and magnifying resolution of these headphones. My main concerns surround complaints about harsh high frequency and listening fatigue

+ light weight and comfortable
+ high quality construction (made in Germany)
+ widest/deepest imaging sound stage
- boosted 100 -300 Hz, attenuated 2-3 kHz, 12 kHz & 18 kHz
- some owners complain about high frequency fatigue
- some say instrument placement within image in non-resolving

Comments welcome
 
Aug 10, 2012 at 4:52 PM Post #20 of 26
After hearing the AH-D2000's paired with the Grace at a meet I was blown away by the combination. Finally got an AH-D7000 today. I don't think I've ever heard better amp/phone matching than the Grace with these Denons. Not sure if the same holds true for Denon's new line, but I'd like to find out sometime. 
 
Aug 23, 2012 at 1:17 AM Post #21 of 26
Some of you listen rather loudly. :p Typically I set my Grace m903 between 40 and 50 with no boost. Then again, my headphones are all low impedance/high sensitivity. 
biggrin.gif

 
Aug 24, 2012 at 8:45 AM Post #22 of 26
Some of you listen rather loudly. :p Typically I set my Grace m903 between 40 and 50 with no boost. Then again, my headphones are all low impedance/high sensitivity. :D


As you suspected it is about HF efficiency. I listen to my active monitors at 75-80 dB. My m903 drives my Westone 4Rs set at 60-65 but my K702s need to be set at 75-85 for a similar volume. My Headroom Microamp will play the AKGs at the same volume as the m903 set at 11 o'clock.
 
Dec 1, 2012 at 11:21 AM Post #23 of 26
Quote:
After hearing the AH-D2000's paired with the Grace at a meet I was blown away by the combination. Finally got an AH-D7000 today. I don't think I've ever heard better amp/phone matching than the Grace with these Denons. Not sure if the same holds true for Denon's new line, but I'd like to find out sometime. 

 
I've written about this combination before in an other thread about Grace Design m903 (or Fostex TH-900). I am very fond of Grace Design m903 + Denon AH-D7000. It is one of my favurite combinations.
 
To my surprise I rather recently found out during a demo that Grace Design m903 also does very well with HiFiMAN HE-6. I and another person compared it to the well regarded Auralic Taurus. m903 was as good or maybe better. I listen at very low loudness levels (see numbers below). The other person probably normal, but also tried very loud without problems or clipping.
 
HiFiMAN HE-6 made a very good impression.
 
I don't like Sennheiser HD 800 + Grace Design m903 as stated in a thread about Lynx Hilo. Lynx Hilo + Sennheiser HD 800 on the other hand seem to be a good combination.
 
First impression is that Grace Design m903 + Sennheiser HD 650 is a good combination, but this is still early stages for me.
 
Audeze LCD2.2 bamboo and (to a lesser degree) LCD3: My first impressions: "What's all the fuzz about?" and "Much ado about nothing". Tested on Grace Design m903 (LCD2 and 3), Auralic Taurus (LCD3) and Schiit Mjölnir (LCD3).
 
I have spent too little time with Grace Design m903 + beyerdynamic T 1, but the impression wasn't negative.
 
Grace Design m903 as DAC + STAX SRM-007t + STAX SR-009 is a good combination.
 
 
Quote:
Some of you listen rather loudly. :p Typically I set my Grace m903 between 40 and 50 with no boost. Then again, my headphones are all low impedance/high sensitivity.
biggrin.gif

 
With foobar2000 with replaygain, I'm typically around this, maybe a bit lower depending on mood etc.:
  1. AKG K 701: 41
  2. Sennheiser HD 800: 41
  3. Denon AH-D7000: 33 (often a bit lower)
  4. beyerdynamic T 1: 46
  5. AKG K 271 MK II/HSD 271: 38
  6. Sennheiser HD 25-1 II basic: 32
  7. Sennheiser HD 380 Pro: 33
 
With foobar2000 with replaygain and -3 dB 46 initially seems reasonable with Sennheiser HD 650, but this is so far very early and brief stages.
 
During the HiFiMAN HE-6 demo in a shop demoroom I used approximately 61-63. The other person around 79 for normal and 90 or above for testing very loud/limit.
 
Dec 8, 2012 at 12:00 AM Post #24 of 26
Quote:
 
I don't like Sennheiser HD 800 + Grace Design m903 as stated in a thread about Lynx Hilo. Lynx Hilo + Sennheiser HD 800 on the other hand seem to be a good combination.
 
Audeze LCD2.2 bamboo and (to a lesser degree) LCD3: My first impressions: "What's all the fuzz about?" and "Much ado about nothing". Tested on Grace Design m903 (LCD2 and 3), Auralic Taurus (LCD3) and Schiit Mjölnir (LCD3).

 
I can mirror that, HD-800 and/or LCD-3 matched with the m903 isn't the best combination. The HD-800 in particular is very lacking in weight. Right now my HD-800 setup is:
 
Realiser > Grace m903 (as DAC) > Audio-gd Phoenix > DHC Compliment > HD-800
 
Easily my favorite setup so far.
 
Even when the m903 doesn't work as a headphone amp it's a perfectly excellent DAC
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Feb 16, 2013 at 12:37 AM Post #25 of 26
Quote:
Some more thoughts....

Hi,

Posted a thread wanting to know what headphones to try next being an AKG K 702 owner who also has a Grace Design m903 DAC-Headphone Amplifier. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with this set up. I mostly listen to jazz, some blues and some occasional classical (mostly orchestral). I was looking for a "step up" in performance over the AKGs that would work well with the m903.

What I like about the K702s:

1)- They present a spacious, airy sound stage
2)- They portray detail and subtlety within recordings
3)- they have a fairly neutral timbre to their sound

I am looking for headphones that have a neutral timbre, portray even greater detail than the AKGs but portray the soundstage more precisely. Not every recording is in a large hall so I want the soundstage to adjust to the recording. While I like the effect, I wonder if something does a better job at this?

I have looked at a number of possibilities and have eliminated some offerings from audio technica, denon, fostex, grado , koss, stax and ultrasone.  Their are 4 models of open air headphones between $700-$1,500 that all seem to be well regarded:

Audez'e LCD-2 - $995
Beyerdynamic T1 -$1,399
HiFiMAN HE-500 - $699
Sennheiser HD800 - $1499

Which these will match best to the m903 and meet my sonic desires for neutrality, musical detail and superior imaging and instrument placement? All of these cans are regarded as better than the AKGs but which one do you think is right for me?

Thanks,

Bob

 
If you are listening for pleasure the beyer T1s are the bomb.  The 702s are designed to give a less flattering more realistic design for monitoring. 
 
I too am looking to get the 903 as a monitor controller.  In the past I've only use passive controllers (in which your active monitors are turned all the way up, and you have your output from the DAW at unity and use the volume to attenuate), but the 903 looks like an amazing piece of kit with very well seperated power sources.
 
They have a huge range of headphones and claim particularly that they exhibit low noise for low impedance headphones (I've been using the AKG 550s, I find them to be very critical, making what I think is a bumping mix sound not so great but at 32OHMS most headphone amps just are too noisy) which why I'm drawn to them. 
 
And like has been mentioned they are powerful enough to drive everything.  Its so weird that audiophiles will spend more money then some mastering engineers on their gear.
If music would be produced at a better level and not distributed in compressed digital formats would so many need to waste so much money?
 
I've just heard everything sound good out of the T1s driven by almost any source, and I love that the 903 is this sweet headphone amp that just happens to have balanced outs for studio monitors.  what a strange product, and it fits so well on my desk, in between the monitors and the rack with the studio gear.  
 
Feb 16, 2013 at 9:25 AM Post #26 of 26
Quote:
Hi,

I have this DAC/amp ( Grace m903) and I use it to power AKG K 702s. Despite being 62 ohm cans, i need to run he amp at 80% volume to pwer these. It has an output impedance of 1.2 ohms and puts out 1200 mW @ 50 ohms, 240 mW @ 250 ohms and 100 mW @ 600 ohms. I use the balanced TRS outputs for my active monitors ( Neumann KH120s) so I will be using the headphone outputs. as a point of reference I have AKGs for listening around the house and Westone 4Rs for when I travel.

I am considering upgrading my headphones and I am considering a number of the "usual suspects".

Audeze LCD-2 are 60 ohms
Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 are 600 ohms
Denon AH-D7100 are 25 ohms
HiFiman HE-500 are 38 ohms
Sennheiser HD800 are 300 ohms

All of these are well liked are any a better match with my amp? Also, in terms of a jazz listener seeking greater musical detail, soundstage and imaging which would you recommend?

Thanks,

Bob

 
 
This is close to what I have.
 
I have the Grace m903 and my nearfield monitors used to be the K+H O110 (the previous model to the Neumann KH120 that you have) before I upgraded to the ME Geithain RL906 last year.
 
My main open monitoring headphones are the Sennheiser HD 800 and they go perfectly with the m903.
 
If you are using headphones as a serious monitoring tool, then I have found nothing better than the HD 800.
 
The Grace m903 and HD 800 are perfect partners for each other where you want accuracy and reality as a professional monitoring tool - listening for pleasure is something different, where you want something that sounds "nice" rather than being accurate and revealing - which is what you need when you are monitoring and mastering.
 

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