[lifeonaplate1791]

Alright I know I'm posting rather often but I have nowhere else to go, and I need to make sure this money is very well spent.

First point of concern: I understand that the HD600s are considered "better" than the 580s. But is it really that big of a difference? I mean, if I put on the 580s and immediately after, the 600s, will it be like a night and day comparison? I'm having trouble deciding whether or not it is better to get the HD580s and an amp, or the 600s on their own. I have a stereo which I am guessing will drive either just fine, but I also assume that moving to a dedicated amp is still the best option. If I were to buy the 580s, is there a good (not so-so, but good) amp to buy in combination so as to keep the price under $300 or perhaps a tad over? Building an amp is definately not out of consideration, so long as schematics can be found/bought cheaply.

Now, another important piece of info...while I love to believe the positive things I hear about the HDs, I can't help but get flustered when I hear about how some beyers have great bass response and more impact. The truth is, I am a complete newcomer to this field. The Senns were simply the first quality phones I looked at in detail, and so I latch onto them. In addition, It's much easier to concentrate on 2 or 3 pairs of phones from 2 manufacturers rather than take into account all reviews (with a grain of salt) and research those further in depth. Add to that the difficulty in doing a direct comparison, the impossibilty of trying out the ER-4Ps without buying them for a trial, and everything gets so confusing and intimidating. Now...that said, I admit I am a basshead. Even if the stuff I listen to never has that sort of insane bass, I still will crank up some bass mekanik through anything I can find.

Anyway, here's what I listen to for real...Mainly rock type music. Almost never classical or jazz or blues. Pretty much rock/punk and games. Some radiohead and stuff like that. Some wierd categories...the main things I want are a truly full warm sound, comfort, and good bass impact with no distortion, even at loud volumes, and ideally, some isolation, but that's not much of a deciding factor. I don't know if this is a factor for anyone, but I'm sure it will be for a few: please don't mistake my liking of rock and games and such to mean that I don't really care about sound as long as it's boomy enough. That is most definately not the case. I want not just good bass, but impact, and not just a warm sound, but a warm sound that is clear. I have a discerning ear, and I still want crystal clear details to shine. Is that a lot to ask, allowing for an amp, under $300? To be sure, maybe.

Would the HD580s alone be enough, combined with my stereo receiver? Combined with a dedicated amp? Perhaps look to the beyers? The etys? The etys in my experience (The ER-6s) sound a little too screechy for my taste. Great sound, to be certain, but not enough bass, and just lacking that warm full sound I want. Do the ER-4Ps fix these problems? In comparison to the HD580s/600s?




Anyway, I'm kinda jumping around a lot, but this is a whole lot of information to be finding out in the span of a few weeks. I've been sitting online night and day poring over technical articles, reviews, etc... because I'm sick of listening to crap and want a wonderful sound I won't regret. So any opinions I can get on this stuff would be very greatly appreciated. And hell, if you have some completely different phones (I don't feel worthy enough to say "cans" yet, hehe) that you like that meet most of these conditions, by all means, tell me about it. Help a poor boy spend his money wisely

 

[lifeonaplate1791]

I might also add that it is not uncommon for me to sit in front of my computer for 6, 10, 12 hours straight, wearing headphones the whole way through. So, obviously, comfort is important. And not just physical comfort, but listening comfort. I don't want the music to just melt together into a big lump of crap that I can't stand to listen to anymore after two hours. Part of the reason the HD series appeals to me...quite nice spatialization. And I don't know about the rest of you, but that whole "having the music transport you into another realm" deal seems a little wasted when you have the feeling of something stuck in your ears always reminding you that you are only listening through phones. Anyone else feel that way? Anyways, starting to get off topic, so

A)Comfort should be high
B)Listening fatigue should be low.

 

[Rizumu]

No. By all accounts it is not a night and day difference. An HD580 + amp will blow the HD600 alone out of the water. It's a cheaper solution, I see no reason in not taking advantage of it. You get 95% of the performance for much less. HD580's can be found for ~$100 used, plus a good $200 for a META42 or something and there you go.

Now! That's just tackling your first paragraph. Are the HD580's right for you? They have no isolation, they're very open. Forget about that. They're very comfy if they fit your head right (they were sort of funky on mine

) I think they will give you that warm, full and detailed sound you are looking for. I can't fully recommend them though as you don't listen to any jazz/classical, which I feel they excel at, and mainly rock, which I feel they don't. Mine sat around until I sold them since I mainly listened to rock at the time. I miss them now, but I can always get another pair when I have more money...

The mids were too laid-back for me. Think sitting back aways in the audience rather than up on front stage with the band. Rather than crystal clarity with rock recordings the HD580 leaned toward an indistinct murkiness that turned me off from them. They have a relaxing, inoffensive sound but are simply lacking the impact and energy for rock, IMO

The only other phones I've heard in the same price range is the Ultrasone HFI-650 which is a closed phone. Since I don't have experience with other open phones in the same price range I will leave the recommendations to others. Consider Grados though, they have are very forward sound (on stage with the band) with great impact, bass and soundstaging. You should definitely consider the SR225 paired with an RA-1 or the like.

 

[lifeonaplate1791]

Ahh i just never shut up...

Yet another comment:

While I want clear detail, it's more important to me to get a rich sound. I'd rather spend my time getting lost in the music rather than saying "hmm, that wasn't there before." I guess it's somewhat comparable to a black and white photo...it may have more detail, but just isn't as pleasing to the eye as a color photo. Anyways, moving past the crappy analogy...

 

[Rizumu]

HD580's definitely have that "transporting you to another world" effect going on. They are very non-fatiguing headphones (I can't say the same about my HFI-650) and could easily be worn for long periods of time. They sound great at low volumes too.

 

[zeplin]

Let me just say this...
The 580/600 are very close in sound and it would be wise to just save money and go for the 580 w/ amp combo. As for you wanting richness in your music, IMO, the 580/600's are it. The mids and bass are soo punchy and rich, I think they're perfect for rock, especially if you use your receiver, which will work fine by the way. I dunno how to describe the richness of this headphone in any other manner...they just pull you in and that's it, you're addicted, which is another one of your wants!! Just be sure to turn up the treble a little on your receiver, ONLY if you find the treble too laid back, at least you'll have that option amp or no amp. What you can do is feed your cd player through your receiver and then from your receiver to your headphone amp, if you get one...that way, you'll have at least some control over the bass and treble. The writing on the wall is pretty clear to me, from all your wants in a headphone, the Senns are the way to go.

PS and check out the "580/amp" thread below yours for a little research on what amps may work for you

 

[usc goose]

worry not lifeonaplate, you have barely but a glimpse now of the sick and twisted world of useless, non-stop jabbering posts. (which reminds me i need to go get my life back one of these days) anyways, you're on your way to figuring out what you like. something tells me that senns might be a little too polite for you though. then again if you thought er-6s were screechy, who knows what you'll think of grado. perhaps it's beyer time? (i have no 1st hand experience with grado or beyer btw)

 

[usc goose]

actually if you want warm with detail, i know what i own and use that would work for you. sony mdr-v900

. awwww yeah...

edit: also i find them super comfy and non fatiguing. what more do you need? (besides maybe some flame retardant)

 

[becomethemould]

if you want to wear them for a very long time, avoid closed and grados. closed cans heat up your ears too much, and grados (coming from sr60 with the foam pads, not the donuts (which are even worse), aren't that comfortable. im not sure about the comfort of sennheisers, but the beyers are very comfortable. had a quick go at the dt880s, it goes around your ears with alot of room in between, but im not sure if you could wear them for more than a couple of hours (i haven't experienced it yet).

 

[Rizumu]

Quote:

Originally posted by becomethemould if you want to wear them for a very long time, avoid closed and grados. closed cans heat up your ears too much, and grados (coming from sr60 with the foam pads, not the donuts (which are even worse), aren't that comfortable. im not sure about the comfort of sennheisers, but the beyers are very comfortable. had a quick go at the dt880s, it goes around your ears with alot of room in between, but im not sure if you could wear them for more than a couple of hours (i haven't experienced it yet).

Grado pads are easily replaced/customized/etc. You can get some modded senns pads from Vwap. Or just get the Senn pads and cut them yourself. I have the Senn yellow pads and they are extremely comfortable with the SR60. More comfortable than the HD580 ever was.

Just saying don't let this effect your decision too much...grado comfort opinion seems to vary a lot.

If you want something to kick back to and fall asleep to I can see the appeal of the HD580. Just not sure why you'd want this for rock.

 

[tom hankins]

Go with the 580's and an amp and then upgrade the cable on the headphones as soon as you can afford to. You should be able to pick up a creek or home meta amp, and a pair of 580's in the gear for sale forum within your budget.

 

[Solude]

I would and did get the 600 over the 580 only because the cost difference is really small (~200vs~240). That said you should really tell us what kind of music you listen to, the kind of reproduction you're after, speaker manufacturers you'd like your headphones to sound like and so on.

Otherwise you'll end up like me having to buy 3 pairs to finally arrive where I wanted to be the first time

So far for me, listening mostly to rock with some female jazz and soul, looking for a natural, impact, detailed with a touch of warmth, looking for that PSB Stratus Gold class sound would rank the headphones I've had like this:

Beyer DT880 > Grado SR325 > Senn HD600

The Senn was really bad at low level listening, the vocals were hard to understand and cymbal work was just lost to the bottom end. At high levels it became a whole other headphone improving by leaps and bounds but I don't like listening at that level, can you say tinnitus?

The Grado was much closer to ideal and not uncomfortable for my ear. Basically if your ears are flat with your head you are ok since the bowl pads and your ear share the same shape. If your ear stick out, don't think I've ever seen a woman who's ears don't, then the Grado will press down on your ear. As for sound the impact was a touch too heavy, the emotion was missing from lack of warmth or an overall dry tonal balance but the detail and speed were true to life.

Enter the Beyer DT880, all hail the King

Same great detail and impact of the Grado, higher comfort than the Senn, great right from a whisper to a roar, the warmth of the Senn without the recess of vocals and cymbal work. A perfect match for someone looking for that studio or jam session sound. Very close to what the PSB Stratus Gold sound like but with better resolution, no room to worry about either

Anyway it's important to really pound out your goal so people can point you in the right direction. The Senn is a very accepted headphone but has more than its share of faults that may or may not be important to you.

 

[lifeonaplate1791]

I have looked at the Beyers, which look quite appealing thus far, but I am unsure if I would have the ability to try them out. Ideally I would order about 3-4 pairs and try them all for an extended time, and then send back whichever ones I don't like. Buuut that may not be possible. I'm really not interested in an amp unless there's a major difference in sound. I assume my receiver is plenty strong enough to drive any of them. As for the Sennheisers...I can't really comment on those, since "loud" has different meanings for most people. My friend for example, gets bothered by slightly loud music, whereas I'm just getting started. And he's the one with tinnitus

.

Are the ER-4Ps as rich as the beyers? As far as impact? Also, I know this is a forbidden word here, but do the beyers and senns have as much bass as the bose triports? I know, they are insanely overpriced, but admittedly, they do have a pretty crazy bass level. Not to say that they sound the best, of course, but do the Senns and beyers come close to that, or surpass it while sounding clean? I'd assume yes given their price and reputation, but one can never be sure...and please give me opinions on that if you've actually been able to compare. I know, bose sucks, but I still need a somewhat unbiased comparison.