[I3eyond]

For example:
 
Rodrigo y Gabriela's new album "Area 52"...
 
I find this music in some sections to be very, very fast, and with some complex parts. 
 
So, in this album, with the combination of Rodrigo y Gabriela's high emotion energy, and with the addition of an almost salsa-esqe groove in the background with a band, which headphones shine:
 
Grado....
 
....Or Sennheiser?
 
I will give you my two cents:
 
My comparison is between HD650s and SR325is.
 
And, from my experience, this album sounds much much better on Sennheisers.  There are more layers, and you get that world atmosphere.  The soundstaging is better, it is an ocean of music to get lost into. 
 
Whereas, the Grados, wow.  Almost too harsh & direct.  But what's interesting is that I find Rodrigo y Gabriela's self-titled album much better on Grado.
 
What really throws it off is the addition of the horns, drums, and other instrumentation in "Area 52".  The album craves a set of headphones that can take different pieces of the music and piece it together like a puzzle, and I feel the Sennheisers really shine here. 
 
 

 

[Head Injury]

People always say the HD650 is slow and Grados are fast. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Grados have a lot of treble, upper mid-range, and little bass beside a punchy mid-bass hump, while the HD650 is dark. That's what people describe as fast, more often than real transient response. The Grados I've used weren't really fast, just bright. They choke when there's too much going on (but my reference is an LCD-2 so maybe that's unfair).

 

[I3eyond]

Quote:

People always say the HD650 is slow and Grados are fast. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Grados have a lot of treble, upper mid-range, and little bass beside a punchy mid-bass hump, while the HD650 is dark. That's what people describe as fast, more often than real transient response. The Grados I've used weren't really fast, just bright. They choke when there's too much going on (but my reference is an LCD-2 so maybe that's unfair).

Yeah, IMO it seems like fast would seem to go hand in hand with handling a lot going on, but they just don't....

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

People always say the HD650 is slow and Grados are fast. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Grados have a lot of treble, upper mid-range, and little bass beside a punchy mid-bass hump, while the HD650 is dark. That's what people describe as fast, more often than real transient response. The Grados I've used weren't really fast, just bright. They choke when there's too much going on (but my reference is an LCD-2 so maybe that's unfair).

I think this is spot on. The closest I've come to the Grado house sound is the Alessandro MS-1i and I've always found the HD650 to be just as nimble when called for. Perhaps the weight of the low end adds to the impression of a slow response, especially when that low end can come across as flab when components aren't well matched.
 

 

[catscratch]

Yeah, IMO it seems like fast would seem to go hand in hand with handling a lot going on, but they just don't....

Or maybe people are calling things fast that really aren't. Most people associate a brighter sound with a fast transducer but they're two totally different things. I think the HD650 is actually above average at least when it's well-driven.

If you want a big jump in speed move away from traditional dynamics. Planar magnetics like the LCD2 will be faster and electrostatics will be faster still. I'd look in that direction. If you sell your HD650 and 325 you're more than halfway to the LCD2, and there are some vintage Stax or the newer x07 headphones that are also in the price range. The crazy expensive electrostatic madness doesn't really start until you hit the SR-007/009 levels though the lower-priced electrostatics are still ruthlessly revealing in their own right.

 

[I3eyond]

Quote:

Or maybe people are calling things fast that really aren't. Most people associate a brighter sound with a fast transducer but they're two totally different things. I think the HD650 is actually above average at least when it's well-driven.
If you want a big jump in speed move away from traditional dynamics. Planar magnetics like the LCD2 will be faster and electrostatics will be faster still. I'd look in that direction. If you sell your HD650 and 325 you're more than halfway to the LCD2, and there are some vintage Stax or the newer x07 headphones that are also in the price range. The crazy expensive electrostatic madness doesn't really start until you hit the SR-007/009 levels though the lower-priced electrostatics are still ruthlessly revealing in their own right.

http://www.headphone.com/headphones/audeze-lcd-2-leather.php
 
Those?  
 
They look fun.... 

 

 

[olor1n]

Not as fun as the HD650.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

http://www.headphone.com/headphones/audeze-lcd-2-leather.php
 
Those?  
 
They look fun.... 

Given their aggressive pricing, you might be better off with a Hifiman HE-500 (which you could very nearly afford at $700, if you sold what you have). Some like them more than the LCD-2, some less. It measures quite nice, and has great, low resonance. Or, once the early hype dies down, the HE-400 if it proves good too.

 

[suburbanite]

I'd like to know this as well.
 
I want something that can keep up with the high speed, complex and precise "machine" drumming heard by such bands as Origin, Vader and others.
 
Preferably something within $500 and 250-600ohm because the ol' budget is currently limited.
 
Also, if anyone has any suggestions for bands similar to Origin and Vader, I'd appreciate that as well by PM.

 
 

 

[rroseperry]

Could someone give an example of a slow phone? I would think that any competent set of headphones would do the trick. The main difference is between the way particular phones are tuned, Grados being v/ mid forward, Beyerdynamics being a bit flatter (at least the 880s).

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

Could someone give an example of a slow phone?

HD595, slug champion.

 

[suburbanite]

 
Quote:

Could someone give an example of a slow phone? I would think that any competent set of headphones would do the trick. The main difference is between the way particular phones are tuned, Grados being v/ mid forward, Beyerdynamics being a bit flatter (at least the 880s).

 
Kinda.
 
Given my limited experience, I'd say my Koss Porta Pros and my Sennheiser HD 25-1 ii's both don't seem to "keep up" with Origin's drummer. I don't notice the sound of each drum kit component as much with them as I do with the DT 880 600ohm's. The components' sounds comparatively meld together.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

HD595, slug champion.

lol

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

 
 
Kinda.
 
Given my limited experience, I'd say my Koss Porta Pros and my Sennheiser HD 25-1 ii's both don't seem to "keep up" with Origin's drummer. I don't notice the sound of each drum kit component as much with them as I do with the DT 880 600ohm's. The components' sounds comparatively meld together.

hd25 is not very fast too, but the problem is not as bad as for the hd595.

 

[suburbanite]

Any suggestion of a faster portable supraaural than the HD 25-1 ii? Are the DT1350's comparatively faster?