[Len]

In context of headphones, what do you all mean by soundstage? No headphone "disappears" and replicates a life-like soundstage IMO, so are we simply referring to how volumious the sound is?

 

[Annihilator]

well if you ever try a grado, and then try say an A900, it should be pretty obvious what soundstage is. with a grado it sounds like the sound is right on top of you, like you are exactly where each instrument is being played. with the a900 it feels like theres some more distance from your ears to the sound.

 

[Len]

You've defined it as immediacy, and that mostly has to due with tonal balance. This would make sense, but it's not what I'd define as soundstaging.

 

[skullguise]

I have had a good bit of "spatial perception" using Sennheiser 580's and 650's, Sony CD3k's, and AT AH900's.

With music that is recorded in an environment that allows spacial presentation, it shows as instruments sounding a little more int he back of your head for example, versus staright in-between the ears.

Alison Kraus and Union Station Live has quite a good soundstage for headphone listening. You can hear Alison get closer to and farther from the mic, you can hear clear left to right spacial presentation of the acoustic guitars, and the drums and bass are a little in back, with effects in both ears.

So while soundstage in 'phones is not as big as with some speaker-based systems, it is still there, sometimes in abundance.

 

[BowerR64]

I notice this with a few pair of headphones i have. First i have the Koss KSC35, 50 and 75 these use the 60 ohm KSC drivers that many refer to as sounding grado like. They sit right next to the ear similar to the grado. The sound is like its comming from inside your head. Then i have the R/200 and the UR40 wich also use the KSC drivers and they have a wider sound stage because they arnt clipons they are circumaural. The R/200 have a wider sound stage of them all because the pads are larger and thicker, they sit further from the ear then the clipons. They have the same KSC sound but its more distant.

Insted of pointing right into the ear canal and shooting the sound directly in, the sound is bouncing off the outter ear giving a different sound. It almost sound more speaker like then with the KSC 35-75

 

[Len]

Perhaps my brain simply hasn't adapted to headphone reproduction, but I can never convince it of a real soundstange when using headphones. There are certainly very defined stereo cues (and maybe this is the 'soundstage' headfi'ers are referring to), but that's not soundstaging to me. When voices are "in my head" and each channel is so audibly differentiated (happens with nearfiled listening), I am unable to recreate any resemblance of a three-dimensional performance. I hear shallow horizontal soundstaging, but there's no depth (other then the tonal immediacy) or height.

I wonder if there isn't a better word we could use in lieu of "soundstaging" in context of headphones.

 

[Annihilator]

the only 'real' soundstage I've heard is when listening to binaural recordings or dolby headphone. the soundstage with those destroys any kind of soundstage headphones normally have.

 

[waterpump]

try some of my binaural samples on

www.waterpump.f9.co.uk

enjoy...

dallas simpson

 

[ayt999]

have you read darth nut's review of the Omega II and his description of what he decribes as "headstage?"

I'm listening to the Omega II with the Accuphase DP-85 (my source) and an Exemplar Audio modded Denon 2900 (a source I'm borrowing from fliz currently) and there is a noticable difference in the layering of the sound and the perceived depth that it has. the DP-85 definitely seems to produce sounds further from the head to the sides and the sounds are more spread out and each has its own space, while the Denon 2900 seems to have the sounds coming from a more confined space and they are overlapping in space. I also noticed that the DP-85 seems to envelope you in sound and really has a three-dimentional space extending to the front and back of your head almost in a 360 degree fashion, while the 2900 doesn't do this as much and only slightly extends the sound to the front and back. This is all with the Omega II with the Blue Hawaii so the headphone also has something to do with it, but the change in headstage between the two players is quite drastic. btw, I'm writing up a review comparing the DP-85 and the 2900 using the Omega II (for now, I may add different setups later on) so this will probably be described in more detail whenever I finish that and post it.

Len - you have a DP-55, and I assume that has similar sonic qualities as my DP-85 so you should also notice what I've outlined above... although possibly the HD600 you are using isn't fully developing the soundstage / headstage the source is producing.

 

[johto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterpump try some of my binaural samples on www.waterpump.f9.co.uk enjoy... dallas simpson

Hi dallas ! Very nice recordings, i liked that fireworks the best, awesome !

 

[BowerR64]

Yeah fireworks is a good one, the bass of the explosions is great.

Are there any more good sound files like these? i want to make a disk of some cool sounds like that. Those are really awsome!

Those files sound cool on the DT770 with an amp!

 

[Len]

ayt999,
That was a terrific link. Headstage is a nice differentiation and I think I'll adopt it into my lexicon

I definitely hear significant differences in headphones, but soundstaging never seemed like the approriate word. Spatial cues are always quirky with headphones, and the stage is compressed and miniscule compared to speaker systems or "live" performances (can never trick my brain into thinking otherwise). When I think of soundstaging, I think of the ability to define instruments and vocals in a three dimensional (width, height, depth) environment. I can't do that with headphones. Sounds may feel closer or further away, bigger or smaller .... but there's no real staging, with everything in or around my head.

I'm eager to read your comparision between the Exemplar and Accuphase.