[haloxt]

I'll explain it to you in simple words, and don't care if you understand or not because you are going to be the first person on my ignore list. Congratulations.

The stupid article says binaural beats don't work. Both of those studies you linked say binaural beats work, but in the first one, they didn't establish a correlation to pulse or blood pressure. This does not mean binaural beats does not exist, which is what that stupid article is asserting. The second study says nothing against the existence of binaural beats.

And the article tries to disprove binaural beats:

Quote:

So to summarize their claim, they're saying that entrainment means that a binaural beat will cause your brain's electroencephalogram to match the pattern of the phantom beat. Well, if it did, entrainment certainly doesn't apply and would not be part of the equation, so we can scratch that off the list.

Read my new sig

If I don't respond to you, it's probably because you are on my ignore list.

 

[DayoftheGreek]

I don't understand what the problem is here. Are we talking about different articles or what?

Nobody says binaural beats don't exist. Its not even complicated or debated anywhere. Not even that article refutes that. In fact, it even gives an explanation of binaural beats. 1 tone in each each, each at different frequencies, creates a beat frequency.

Did you even read the next sentence?
Quote:

But it doesn't make the claimed observation wrong.

Entrainment has to do with physical stimuli. Clocks on a wall, or metronomes on a table. Those things will sync up. He is just saying that entrainment has nothing to do with mental stimuli, so anyone so says binaural beats affect the brain because of entrainment is wrong. Which makes sense, assuming he is correct in his definition of entrainment.

All it says is that you can't effect mood with binaural beats anymore than regular music. Blood pressure is related to stress and heart rate, so if the binaural beats really did relax you, there should be some measurable medical results, which there were not.

Can someone help me here? Am I completely off base? I don't even know what I did to upset this guy so much.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can someone help me here? Am I completely off base? I don't even know what I did to upset this guy so much.

You're completely on base. haloxt seems to be having selective reading comprehension.

It is not the responsibility of science to disprove every claim. It is the responsibility of those making the claim to use science properly to show something is true or causes a certain effect. Once there is a proper study it can be discussed as science rather than marketing babble generated by those selling or deriving some sort of personal benefit from binaural beats.

 

[haloxt]

I already stated binaural beat claims can be far-fetched. It's not the responsibility of science to disprove, but neither is it the responsibility of those making the claim to prove, unless one side has declared that it has conclusive proof and is asked to show it. People who have experimented with binaural beats know that it is hit and miss, different with each individual, with different cd's, and at different times. Studies have shown correlations between different brainwave entrainment frequencies (induced solely by binaural beats) and psychophysical states, so when marketing babble claims that by lowering your dominant brainwave frequency down to ~8hz may have a tendency to cause a sense of relaxation, they are backed by decades of experimentation.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

It is the responsibility of those making the claim to prove. This is the sound science area of head-fi, not the cable area. This discussion is going to degrade into a cable style argument unless it gets framed in science rather than marketing pseudo-science.

 

[haloxt]

Why are you turning this into a discussion of binaural beat cd makers making crazy claims when everything I've posted about was about the stupid article claiming the phenomena of binaural beats does not even exist? You are just sidetracking everything like the first person on my ignore list, and if you keep it up you can be #2.

 

[DayoftheGreek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why are you turning this into a discussion of binaural beat cd makers making crazy claims when everything I've posted about was about the stupid article claiming the phenomena of binaural beats does not even exist? You are just sidetracking everything like the first person on my ignore list, and if you keep it up you can be #2.

Because at least that article posted sources. From a legit medical source even.

You just keep spewing garbage, ignoring what everyone is saying to you, and effectively covering you eyes and ears and yelling, "I CANT HEAR YOU!!"

 

[lisa12]

The following is one study I found that might be of interest. I have also used binaural beats with great success. If you are interested you can always buy one, try it and return it if you do not like it. I found the study at Hypnosis Review Quarterly.
 
Binaural Beat Technology in Humans: A Pilot Study To Assess Psychologic and Physiologic Effects
The study was based on a 60 day daily use of Binaural Beat Technology. The study was conducted to assess feasibility of future studies. The study concluded there was a reduction in trait anxiety, an increase in the quality of life, a decrease in dopamine and insulin-like growth factor-1. The conclusion of the study was Binaural Beat Technology may exhibit positive effects especially on anxiety. The study also states that further research is warranted. 
Helané Wahbeh, Carlo Calabrese, Heather Zwickey. The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. January/February 2007, 13(1): 25-32. doi:10.1089/acm.2006.6196

 

[haloxt]

I can randomly quote Hitler's Mein Kampf and say how it supports x y z claim about Chinese fiction. Don't be ridiculous, binaural beats is a well-established fact, only ignorant idiots who think their presuppositions qualify as science say it doesn't exist. I am not amused here. Please, even go check wikipedia.org, that consensus of idiots doesn't even dare to suggest binaural beats isn't real in any conceivable way of the word.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Report: Teens Using Digital Drugs to Get High

I-Dosing: Digital Drugs and Binaural Beats
 
Both stories from today.  Must be a PR frenzy going on about the subject.

 

[Pio2001]

All I can say is that binaural beats is the only kind of audio file I've heard of that is better encoded in Left/Right stereo than in Joint Stereo in mp3.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Report: Teens Using Digital Drugs to Get High

I-Dosing: Digital Drugs and Binaural Beats
 
Both stories from today.  Must be a PR frenzy going on about the subject.

Unfortunately there's always going to be faddism on our doomed little planet because people have an unquenchable thirst for new games and paranoid gossip. The bad thing about faddism and the resulting witch hunt is that few people ever try to understand how it works and the process repeats continuously. It's why there's a "new best diet" every 6 months, and binaural beats gets rewrapped as something brand new (and liek totally safe!) to the public every 1-2 years. Binaural beats is not a toy, its negative aspects are very similar to the negative aspects of hypnotism. To use binaural beats for something like anxiety may be understandable but still questionable, doing it for the purpose of "getting high" is simply self-abuse.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

I can randomly quote Hitler's Mein Kampf and say how it supports x y z claim about Chinese fiction. Don't be ridiculous, binaural beats is a well-established fact, only ignorant idiots who think their presuppositions qualify as science say it doesn't exist. I am not amused here. Please, even go check wikipedia.org, that consensus of idiots doesn't even dare to suggest binaural beats isn't real in any conceivable way of the word.

i've been hearing about binaural beats recently, because of the news about kids supposedly using them as a kind of drug.  So, this thread looked to be interesting.  I must say I don't understand why you have such a hostile attitude to the others posting here.  I have not seen any links posted denying that binaural beats can have an effect on people.  One link did dispute what the supposed mechanism, entrainment, was for causing this effect.  Is this what you object to?  Is it important that entrainment be the mechanism?  I would not think it matters as much as the fact that they do have an effect.  Understanding the actual mechanism is interesting, for sure.  But I haven't seen anything yet posted that provides good proof as to how these work.
 
Maybe it would help if you would clarify what you mean when you say binaural beats "are real" and they are a "well-established fact?"  Also, please note that the wikipedia entry you referenced is tagged with "This article needs additional citations for verification," which I am sure you know means it is not as good a source of objective information as typical Wiki articles.  Not saying what was posted there is wrong, just that it needs some support.

 

[samurai1200]

One thing you gotta know about binaural beats: it's all about the power of suggestion.
 
/thread

 

[haloxt]

 
Quote:

 
I must say I don't understand why you have such a hostile attitude to the others posting here.  I have not seen any links posted denying that binaural beats can have an effect on people.  One link did dispute what the supposed mechanism, entrainment, was for causing this effect.  Is this what you object to?  Is it important that entrainment be the mechanism?  I would not think it matters as much as the fact that they do have an effect.  Understanding the actual mechanism is interesting, for sure.  But I haven't seen anything yet posted that provides good proof as to how these work.

 
 
I was referring to that article disputing binaural beats with a bunch of half-baked arguments, not just "question the supposed mechanism". If you read that article carefully you'll note how he attacks binaural beats from multiple directions like someone trying to lift up food with four chopsticks, he does not stick to a single argument and try to pierce the heart of the matter. If he was honest he would've acknowledged that thousands of studies have been done, and just pointed out the fact that results aren't always the same or predictable and most "self-help binaural beats" are probably over-exaggerated, which is indeed the case with anything involving faddism. Anyone who supports such chopstick logic and gets naggy at me about it deserves to be yelled at.
 
 
Quote:

 
Maybe it would help if you would clarify what you mean when you say binaural beats "are real" and they are a "well-established fact?"

 
 
People who randomly say "binaural beats are a sham" or "binaural beats doesn't exist" claim it isn't real. It is real because it is, backed by a lot of data. What may not be real is the crazy marketing, but note how the article I got ticked about didn't argue just this but tried to do a puny combo on binaural beats. It's well-established because neuroscientists can talk about it by the watercooler without feeling like they're going into the fringe.
 
 
Quote:

 
Also, please note that the wikipedia entry you referenced is tagged with "This article needs additional citations for verification,"

 
 
Just look at the citations already on the article, it's enough.
 
I don't keep up with the news, keep me up to date if something funny happens to the kids trying to get high on binaural beats. I didn't think people were so willing to be guinea pigs, now I know how pharmaceutical companies should recruit for drug experiments.