What we really need is ...

Jul 13, 2008 at 2:47 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

Ross

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A DAP with no hard drive, no amp and no DAC - just a small box big enough to house a 9v battery, a 1gb flash drive, and a CPU capable of running only one application such as Winamp and a USB input and output. The DAP could then be connected to an external portable hard drive such as a 320GB WD Portable Essentials and an external DAC/amp such as the Meier 2Move.

The advantages of this approach compared to current DAPs/amps is:
  1. it would be cheap
  2. you could replace the dac/amp as better ones became available
  3. you could replace the hard drive with bigger or smaller ones as they became available
  4. you could run multiple hard drives with different types of music or different compression (eg a 320GB HD for FLAC, ALAC or WAV and a 120GB for MP3)
  5. you could use the playback software of your choice
  6. you could using a filing system or library management system of your choice
  7. redundancy - if any part failed, you could just replace it without having to replace the whole thing
  8. and most importantly, it would sound much, much better than any DAP or DAP/amp currently available.

The reason I suggest this is that I recently bought a little EEE PC with 12GB of HD, and a separate 320GB portable HD which is powered by the EEE PC. The EEE PC is quite tiny for a notebook, and the portable HD is hardly bigger than an iPod. I had planned to use it as a server for my Squeezeboxes, and also use it as a transportable system with my Meier 2Move.

After setting it up and loading some ALAC files on the HD, and then playing back through the 2Move, I was stunned by how good this sounded through ER4Ss, SE530s and Senn 650s. Now, I have a whole collection of DAPs - ipod classic, Zune 80GB, Zen Vision M, Kenwood Mediakeg, Sony 829, iRiver H340 - and this system kicks the crap out of all of them. And it kicks them from one end of the field and back again without effort.

This has led me to the conclusion that DAPs, while functional, do not sound that great. Recently I created a little controversy in a thread in which I observed that my old Sony Walkman Pro cassette portable sounded better than any of my DAPs. Some people took this to mean that I was suggested that analog, and worse still cassette was better than digital. This was not the case -it was the implementation that I was preferring. The Sony Walkman Pro cassette deck contains some serious playback technology, carries a fair bit of power and has some serious amplification. While there were still the inherent limitations of the cassette technology - wow and flutter etc - the sound was still rich, full bodied and dynamic, compared to the anemic, bland sound coming out of every one of my DAPs. But I do not wish to re-open that debate. The problem is not the format, but the reproduction technology.

The little portable amp/dac combinations are now sounding extremely good. I was frankly blown away by how good the 2Move sounded used as the external sound card/amp from my EEE PC (and also as just an amp). It sounds far better than the output of any DAP. So what we need is either a DAP that provides a USB output or a device that connects the amp/dac to a portable HD including some useful playback software. It should be very cheap to manufacture and sell such a device - surely no more expensive than the cheapest current 1GB DAP. The other components already exist. And finally we would have audiophile quality sound from a DAP.
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 3:10 AM Post #2 of 16
It would have a very very limited consumer base, I personally wouldn't be interested, DAPs aren't supposed to be top of the ranks in sound quality, they're about portability and convience.
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 4:00 AM Post #3 of 16
Quote:

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It would have a very very limited consumer base, I personally wouldn't be interested, DAPs aren't supposed to be top of the ranks in sound quality, they're about portability and convience.


More limited consumer base than an amp/dac? More limited than an iMod? From the number of people carrying round DAP/amp combinations with expensive IEMs, and the number of people who repeatedly start threads asking which DAP has the best sound quality, I would have thought it would have a significant consumer base. Not iPod numbers, but bigger than iMod, for example, especially if it is really cheap, which it should be.
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 6:53 AM Post #4 of 16
If you think there is a market for it, then start a business to produce these. I'm not particularly interested in carrying around all that junk... amp, hdd, etc. I am quite happy with my ordinary old DAP. Assuming I can figure out this damn random ID3 tag issue.

But if you believe you have spotted a gap in the market--which you may have very well done--why not exploit it?
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 8:17 AM Post #6 of 16
Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i like to keep everyting in my pocket. i don't think i could even really seriously think about one of those except to show headfi street cred


You're not alone in this assessment. Portable music should be practical while still sounding as good as size and power constraints will allow.
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 8:37 AM Post #7 of 16
Hell I'd buy one...have been musing on something similar for a while now...also after using an eeePC. It might be better to use SSD drives for power/portabilty benefits...they are starting to come into their own now! Great idea Ross
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jul 13, 2008 at 11:44 AM Post #8 of 16
That would be really nice! I would certainly acquire one...
No need to pay for and drag around two DAC's and amplifiers, when all you need is a DAC with digital output.
 
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:12 PM Post #10 of 16
I certainly wouldn't use something like this for portable use, but I've been looking for something similar..

A device with a user-interface, that can stream digital music straight from a hard drive, or built-in hd.
- no dac, no amp, just firmware and hardware...

I hate being 'stuck' to the PC, when I want to listen to my digital collection. The two solutions I could find, a squeezebox or small laptop can perform these tasks, but they're far from optimal, and costs magnitudes more...
 
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:19 PM Post #11 of 16
What about a portable wireless router and portable nas drive. Leave that in your bag and connect to it wirelessly from a wireless device? That's what I'm looking for! Something like the iPod touch remote functionality but via a HDD.

Wireless HDD? Do they exist?!
 
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:30 PM Post #12 of 16
A HDD would seem a little large.

I have a transportable rig too, which is my lappy, a USB/DAC and alessandros.

but I still love being able to stuff my DAP into the same pocket as my wallet.
 
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM Post #13 of 16
DAP manufacturers wouldn't want to make a product that you could upgrade endlessly. This is why I get the impression some are currently reluctant to allow any form of SD slots.

Other than that, your average joe consumer wants an all in one package that works from the get-go and requires no expertise and customization (beyond cosmetical) to get working.

Not to mention you're going to require industry-wide cooperation for this structure to snugly house all your components.

Ultimately, I think the problem is the mainstream consumer just isn't interested in sound quality. Everything sounds the same through cheap ear buds after all.

What I would much rather see, simply because it seems to me at least to be more plausible is an DAP with phone capabilities (as opposed to the other way around) or a DAP with a more respectable built in amplifier that fits in your pocket.
 
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM Post #14 of 16
Nokia N810 based solutions (SDHC expandable to 32BG) are quite near this DAP play-trough-USB concept.
Probably it can also access a WiFi HDD (since the USB port is taken by the DAC amp).
But battery autonomy has kept me away from this solution. (and I still have to carry my mobile phone...)
Maybee a future Nokia N820 with larger built-in SSD and mobile phone built-in?

Iminent Atom based MIDs flood of devices are still way too short on autonomy too :-(
 

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