What to upgrade for maximal improvement?

[Quicken]

Hi all. I recently moved my entire music collection onto my computer and need some help getting the best out of it in play-back. Sound is stored in Flac format on my trusty samsung SP1614N hard drive (so far so good). Output is via the optical digital out from the onboard audio (not so great) on my shuttle sn41g2, specified as follows:

Realtek® ALC650 6CH w/built in HP amplifier
Integrated APU (Audio Processor Unit)
SoundStorm™ / Dolby® Digital (AC-3) Encoder

This optical digital output is fed into my yamaha home cinema amp (DSP-AX750SE), which has onboard 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs for all channels (can't work out what exact chipset), and pretty decent stereo performance for a home cinema beast.

My question is what should I upgrade for maximal sound quality improvement? Internal sound card? External DAC? Any help appreciated.

Q

 

[star882]

Since you're using a digital connection from your sound card, replacing the sound card will probably give the least improvement.
One thing that will improve quality for free is to turn up the master and wave sliders in the sound card mixer all the way and do the same for the one in the media player, while turning it down on the amp to compensate. For every attenuation of 3dB before the DAC, you lose a bit.

 

[Quicken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by star882 Since you're using a digital connection from your sound card, replacing the sound card will probably give the least improvement. One thing that will improve quality for free is to turn up the master and wave sliders in the sound card mixer all the way and do the same for the one in the media player, while turning it down on the amp to compensate. For every attenuation of 3dB before the DAC, you lose a bit.

Good point thanks; I should have remembered to do that already. I have heard elsewhere that optical digital outs are inferior to the coaxial option, which is one of the reasons I was considering a sound card update (I currently don't have a coaxial out). Is there a general consensus of opinion on that round here? I'd definitely consider a USB card if they'd be any help (not much room in a shuttle).

Q

 

[AdamWill]

They're carrying a digital signal. As long as it's not going further than a couple of metres and you're not high enough up the audiophile chain to be insanely worried about jitter, I REALLY wouldn't sweat the optical / coax difference. I think even the cable crusaders would admit that.

Having said that, a soundcard upgrade is still a good idea, because the nforce audio the SN41G2 uses resamples digital output to 48KHz, so you're not getting a bit-perfect music stream. An AV710 will get you bit-perfect digital out for very little money, but it'd take your PCI slot. Your call.

 

[Quicken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWill They're carrying a digital signal. As long as it's not going further than a couple of metres and you're not high enough up the audiophile chain to be insanely worried about jitter, I REALLY wouldn't sweat the optical / coax difference. I think even the cable crusaders would admit that.

OK, good to know.

Quote:

Having said that, a soundcard upgrade is still a good idea, because the nforce audio the SN41G2 uses resamples digital output to 48KHz, so you're not getting a bit-perfect music stream. An AV710 will get you bit-perfect digital out for very little money, but it'd take your PCI slot. Your call.

Now this seems to be an important issue. I'm spending time and effort getting bit-perfect FLAC files onto my computer using EAC, and then the onboard sound is mangling it using unnecessary resampling. Typical

. Can I get bit-perfect playback using mediamonkey on a windows XP pro box simply by adding an AV710 or similar? Or would additional changes be necessary? Thanks for the help guys.

Q

 

[AdamWill]

I know you need to set the drivers / software up in a specific way, but I can't give you detailed information because I run Linux, so obviously the details are completely different. There are several "guide" threads in this forum, though - I suggest you read those.

 

[star882]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicken Good point thanks; I should have remembered to do that already. I have heard elsewhere that optical digital outs are inferior to the coaxial option, which is one of the reasons I was considering a sound card update (I currently don't have a coaxial out). Is there a general consensus of opinion on that round here? I'd definitely consider a USB card if they'd be any help (not much room in a shuttle). Q

Optical is actually better since it cannot be affected by EMI or cause ground loops. Only downsides are the cost of fiber optic cable and cost of I/O hardware. Note that common laser diodes are very cheap nowadays, so the cost of hardware for optical S/PDIF is not very significant.
I personally use a Sound Blaster Live 24 bit with a coax S/PDIF to a 5.1 amp with integrated DAC.

 

[Quicken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWill I know you need to set the drivers / software up in a specific way, but I can't give you detailed information because I run Linux, so obviously the details are completely different. There are several "guide" threads in this forum, though - I suggest you read those.

Yeah I have seen something about prodigy drivers but don't know many of the technical details. Will look into it thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by star882 Optical is actually better since it cannot be affected by EMI or cause ground loops. Only downsides are the cost of fiber optic cable and cost of I/O hardware. Note that common laser diodes are very cheap nowadays, so the cost of hardware for optical S/PDIF is not very significant. I personally use a Sound Blaster Live 24 bit with a coax S/PDIF to a 5.1 amp with integrated DAC.

So that's a pretty similar set-up to mine. Do you mind me asking what your amp is?

Q

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicken Hi all. I recently moved my entire music collection onto my computer and need some help getting the best out of it in play-back. Sound is stored in Flac format on my trusty samsung SP1614N hard drive (so far so good). Output is via the optical digital out from the onboard audio (not so great) on my shuttle sn41g2, specified as follows: Realtek® ALC650 6CH w/built in HP amplifier Integrated APU (Audio Processor Unit) SoundStorm™ / Dolby® Digital (AC-3) Encoder This optical digital output is fed into my yamaha home cinema amp (DSP-AX750SE), which has onboard 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs for all channels (can't work out what exact chipset), and pretty decent stereo performance for a home cinema beast. My question is what should I upgrade for maximal sound quality improvement? Internal sound card? External DAC? Any help appreciated. Q

Hi Quicken

I'm running two Sb61G2V4s and have the same question.

Regards

USG

 

[star882]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicken So that's a pretty similar set-up to mine. Do you mind me asking what your amp is?

It's a MFX450. Just be aware that its internal DAC will not start from the middle of a signal, so the signal must be switched off and back on in software for it to work. Just a little annoying.