[John2e]

I have been reading a bit in the science form and there appear to be many people who do not subscribe to the Cable improvement concept. I assume most have not tried the upgrades themselvs or they would not attempt to refute it. The subject continues to spark heated debates and gives a whole new meaning to "Mad Scientist"

My question; What is the most dramatic example of an audible change you have experienced with a cable swap.

Mine has to be the Senn 650 swap, going from the stock cord to an aftermarket one drasticaly altered the sound unlike anyother swap I've done.

 

[HD-5000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John2e /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mine has to be the Senn 650 swap, going from the stock cord to an aftermarket one drasticaly altered the sound unlike anyother swap I've done.

Are you sure that this just isn't the placebo effect?

Sorry, my eyes roll whenever someone hears a drastically altered sound from a cable upgrade. Which is scientifically impossible from all of the evidence I've seen.

Tiny, infinitesimal differences I can perhaps buy.

 

[Bones13]

While I love the improvements in recabling my HD 800 to balanced, the difference in recabling my W5000 to balanced Black Dragon cable completely blew me away. Corrected bass and injected life into a neutral, clinical somewhat introverted headphone. I had been considering selling them.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John2e /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have been reading a bit in the science form and there appear to be many people who do not subscribe to the Cable improvement concept. I assume most have not tried the upgrades themselvs or they would not attempt to refute it.

I have tried aftermarket cables and completely disagree with you. Aftermarket cables for my HD-600 and HD-650 (Blue Dragon and Cardas) made absolutely no difference. Further, neither measured a difference on the DMM or oscilloscope.

You might also want to reference Nick Charles' cable tests. He measured several cables and found no difference.

That a difference exists that can be demonstrated with hearing only remains to be seen. Maybe it is possible.

However, no one has ever detected a difference between cables using only their ears.

Many state that they hear a difference. The problem is that no one has ever heard a difference when they cannot see or orherwise know what a cable is.

Until I see someone (or a piece of test gear, for that matter) detect a difference using ears only, then I will remain skeptical.

 

[scootermafia]

With high-end gear, headphone cable swaps are very, very obvious. With my HD800s I can easily tell the difference between silver plated copper, OCC silver, OCC copper, and generic copper.

 

[DaveBSC]

Of all the various kinds of cables that I've tried, I think power cords make the biggest impact, especially the cord that connects the line conditioner to the wall. I have a lot of experience swapping cords on my old Richard Gray and PS Power Plant conditioners, and going from my Wireworld, Siltech, Electraglide, Custom Power Cord Co., and PS Audio cords made huge differences on both conditioners.

I'm currently using an Audience Ar2p and Synergistic Research power cords.

 

[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John2e /img/forum/go_quote.gif My question; What is the most dramatic example of an audible change you have experienced with a cable swap.

My experiences are that it depends on how much untapped potential might exist in the items post the cable change. So, for instance, as an experiment I tried using Piccollino cable (that definitely improves both my Livewires T1s and JH13Pros) with Bose QC3s. Very very marginal change, if any.

Maybe all the noise cancelling electronics limit what happens post the cable but at least it showed me their normal cable was more than sufficient for the QC3s

 

[endless402]

try a cardas cross vs a kimber kcag, good contrast between a warm copper vs a silver

my system is annoying to listen to when i was using all sliver cabling from kimber and chord.

now it's great with all cardas

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif With high-end gear, headphone cable swaps are very, very obvious. With my HD800s I can easily tell the difference between silver plated copper, OCC silver, OCC copper, and generic copper.

Have you tried listening to cables when you don't know what they are?

Also, don't you manufacture and sell cables?

 

[Valens7]

I have found that changing out RCA interconnects has a bigger impact on sound quality than replacing a headphone cable. I've been able to consistently pick out subtle changes in my system every time I've upgraded the RCA cables. With my upgraded Sennheiser cable, it's pretty difficult to hear any difference on my HD600 unless I'm listening to certain music.

Regarding the debate that – unsurprisingly

– seems to have picked up, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all of the various differences I've heard are all in my head. Given the weight of the evidence arrayed against cable upgrades, I definitely don't think that I could offer a similarly rigorous counterargument. Additionally, I can certainly understand why cable skeptics see a problem with high-end cables as a business; if they really don't do anything, isn't the whole thing just a scam? And there's nothing unusual or incorrect about being irritated by potential hucksterism.

That being said, based on what my fallible, amateurish ears are telling me, I'm sticking with my cables.

Heck, I'll probably buy more in the future!

The most important thing to remember if you choose to mess around with cables is to keep everything in perspective. Don't go nuts, because it almost certainly won't be worth it. But, if you shop wisely, you may end up quite pleased by the affect they can have on your system.

 

[Happy Camper]

It must be a crusade.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valens7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...if they really don't do anything, isn't the whole thing just a scam? That being said, based on what my fallible, amateurish ears are telling me, I'm sticking with my cables. Heck, I'll probably buy more in the future!

Do you really take such a naïve approach to buying things? Have you ever dealt with a car salesman? Did you believe everything the car salesman told you? Did you do any research by yourself on what the dealer's cost is on a car or whether the undercoat sealant was actually worth it?

If you're not going to ask questions and learn for yourself, you'll just get ripped off continually.

Is there any difference between someone who takes your money and doesn't ship an item and someone who takes your money, lies and gives you maybe 5% of the value you paid for? The only difference is that the one who rips ou off for selling a product that amounts to nothing is smarter. He can continue to rip you off with "upgrades" and take others as well while pretending that everything is on the level.

Start asking questions. Ask for proof before you spend money. Don't be an idiot. You have more important things to spend your money on.

It is offensive to sell lies and then pretend like it's just a difference in opinion. If there's actual substance to a product, put out some evidence. If it is "impossible" to offer evidence, then the seller doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobleSoundlab.com /img/forum/go_quote.gif Psycho-acoustics are for real. A buyer who drops a month's rent and up on a pair of cables almost needs to hear improvement in their setup to be able to sleep at night, even is there is none. This being said, there are definitely premium cables out there. Make sure the center is pure copper or silver (we prefer copper), the connectors are legit, and that the package is assembled properly. Many factors come into play depending on the cable, its relative location in the setup, the length of the run, etc. The good news is that nobody has ever needed to spend the whole paycheck to get audiophile worthy sound. Noble Soundlab

Have you applied to be a Member of the Trade yet? If you're selling audio equipment, you need to. Details are in the Terms of Use.

Amazing how those who sell cables are turning up, isn't it?

 

[Valens7]

@NobleSoundlab.com

Seriously man? You look like a real loser coming into this thread and shilling your wares like that. Do you honestly think this sort of behavior is going to get people to buy things from you? If so, you're sorely mistaken. If you want to "advertise" your stuff on here, start following the forum rules. Or leave.

@Uncle Erik

I completely agree with you. 100%. As I said in my original post, I fully understand why you're willing to come down hard on people who sell cables. When you look at things from your perspective, it makes perfect sense.

For my part, I decided to try to experiment with cables to satisfy my own curiosity. After experimenting with them, I honestly think I hear a difference. I'm completely willing to admit that I may be mistaken. Indeed, the evidence you've provided would certainly seem to suggest that I am. But, for what it's worth, I like the difference my cables have made in my system. I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating anything negative here, but that's how I feel.

Heh. As an atheist, the remarks above seem terribly ironic to me as I read them.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might also want to reference Nick Charles' cable tests. He measured several cables and found no difference.

Not entirely true, but generally the differences were very small (typically a few 100ths of a db) and nobody as yet has been able to detect the differences between samples made from the cables under test (unsighted).

If I, a mere amateur can do such tests, why has no serious cable manufacturer been able to categorically demonstrate audible cable differences in a decent controlled test ?