[DaveM1785]

I need headphones for use with a Yamaha RX-V681 AVR. When I bought my last set of "real" headphones, the choices were limited to what Allied Radio Shack, Lafayette Electronics, or a couple furniture stores that also sold stereo systems had. I wound up with very tight fitting Koss headphones that, to me, sounded very good. There were no questions about impedance or watts or whatever. I plugged them in and they worked.

Now, it seems like you have to be a rocket scientist to be able to figure out which ones to look at. I've been reading reviews and various forums for a couple weeks and still need help. The AVR manual shows "16 Ohms or more" in the specs. It does not show headphone output power. Some of the items that I have read say to multiply the output impedance by 8 to get the right headphone input. I have not seen any headphones with impedance in that area. Other than the beyerdynamics DT 770, 880 and 990, and a couple others that were no where close to appealing to me, most that I have found are in the range of 24 to 60 Ohms.

With higher impedance headphones seeming to be somewhat of an oddity in this age music being stored on a phone, what would happen if I were to plug 50 Ohm Sennheiser or 55 Ohm AKG instead of a 250 Ohm beyerdynamics headphones? Are there higher impedance versions of the Sennheiser HD 598SR or AKG 240 or AKG 702 that are similar in price? And does cable length affect impedance? I will be using probably a 20 or 25 foot extension cable.

For signal source, I have a Sony UBP-X800 Bluray player that also handles SACDs and Audio DVDs and Blurays. Mostly I listen to pipe organ and orchestral music and a lot of New Age which is mostly synthesizers.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Now, it seems like you have to be a rocket scientist to be able to figure out which ones to look at. I've been reading reviews and various forums for a couple weeks and still need help. The AVR manual shows "16 Ohms or more" in the specs. It does not show headphone output power. Some of the items that I have read say to multiply the output impedance by 8 to get the right headphone input.

The "16ohms or higher" is not indicative of output impedance, just "at least we're sure it won't break." It's the same as the rating for the speaker outputs that might say "min impedance: 4ohms (or 8ohms)." Unless it's indicated elsewhere or you check with the manufacturer chances are the output impedance is still pretty high.

That said don't worry too much about output power as much as output impedance considering some older low impedance headphones have lower sensitivity anyway, which just offsets the extra power.

I have not seen any headphones with impedance in that area. Other than the beyerdynamics DT 770, 880 and 990, and a couple others that were no where close to appealing to me, most that I have found are in the range of 24 to 60 Ohms.

Beyerdynamic T90, 300ohm
Beyerdynamic T70, 250ohm version
Beyerdynamic T1, 600ohms

Sennheiser HD800, 300ohm
Sennheiser HD700, 150ohm
Sennheiser HD660S, 150ohm
Sennheiser HD650, 300ohm
Sennheiser HD600, 300ohm
Massdrop X Sennheiser HD6XX, 300ohm
Massdrop X Sennheiser HD58X, 150ohm

AKG K612, 120ohms
Audezee LCD-2, 90ohms
Focal Elear, 80ohms

Also it isn't just phones that made lower impedance preferable but how driver technology has made impedance less critical for having high sensitivity (even planars like the HE400S; and Sennheiser is moving down to 150ohms) while headphones amplifiers are more prevalent.

With higher impedance headphones seeming to be somewhat of an oddity in this age music being stored on a phone, what would happen if I were to plug 50 Ohm Sennheiser or 55 Ohm AKG instead of a 250 Ohm beyerdynamics headphones?

You have drastically lowered damping factor that can result in distorted bass. Unfortunately that distortion can happen in more than one way...either it boosts the low end or it makes it sound like a tin can but whatever bass you can hear will lack definition. Basically, what is supposed to be a "thump!thump!thump!thump!thump!thump!thump!thump!thump!" can turn into either "THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!THWUUUM!!!" or "thwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuuthwuuu."

One example. My Grado SR225 sounded like a tin can on my NAD 304 but sounds like a bloated mess on an OTL (power delivery is flipped, ie, it performs well at 150ohms to 600ohms vs lower than 120ohms) Little Dot Mk2, despite getting really loud with both.

So in short: we don't know exactly what will happen, and we'd have even less of an idea how badly it is on whatever headphone you buy and not like and what you should get instead unless you're hearing feedback from anybody who has the same receiver.

Are there higher impedance versions of the Sennheiser HD 598SR or AKG 240 or AKG 702 that are similar in price?

Sadly no and the K702 is potentially a double whammy at 62ohms and 93dB/1mW.

And does cable length affect impedance? I will be using probably a 20 or 25 foot extension cable.

Not by as much as you hope to get around the output impedance.

For signal source, I have a Sony UBP-X800 Bluray player that also handles SACDs and Audio DVDs and Blurays. Mostly I listen to pipe organ and orchestral music and a lot of New Age which is mostly synthesizers.

That bass distortion might not matter too much to you for those genres though save for a severe tin can effect.

 

[PurpleAngel]

I need headphones for use with a Yamaha RX-V681 AVR.
Other than the Beyerdynamics DT 770, 880 and 990, and a couple others that were no where close to appealing to me, most that I have found are in the range of 24 to 60 Ohms.
With higher impedance headphones seeming to be somewhat of an oddity in this age music being stored on a phone, what would happen if I were to plug 50 Ohm Sennheiser or 55 Ohm AKG instead of a 250 Ohm Beyerdynamics headphones? Are there higher impedance versions of the Sennheiser HD 598SR or AKG 240 or AKG 702 that are similar in price? And does cable length affect impedance? I will be using probably a 20 or 25 foot extension cable.
For signal source, I have a Sony UBP-X800 Blu-ray player that also handles SACDs and Audio DVDs and Blu-rays. Mostly I listen to pipe organ and orchestral music and a lot of New Age which is mostly synthesizers.

It's cheaper to manufacture a receiver if you use the same amplifier that drive the speakers, to also drive the headphones.
Which usually cause the receiver's headphone jack to have a high output impedance, so headphones in the 250-Ohm to 600-Ohm range are best for plugging into a receiver.
Now a days, for most people, there is no reason for buying 600-Ohm headphones.
But one possible option, are the older versions (20 year ago) of the K240, like the K240M or K240 Sextett, which are 600-Ohm and very cheap ($50-$100) on eBay.
Really nice sound quality for the price.
A good bang for the buck option is the 300-Ohm Massdrop/Sennheiser HD6XX.
If your big on clarity and willing spend more cash, the 250-Ohm Beyerdynamic T70 (closed) or T90 (open) headphones.
If you have no need for Headphone Surround Sound (the Yamaha comes with Silent Cinema), then you could spend $100 for a solid state head amp and connect it to the Yamaha's line-output (RCA), this would allow you to use headphones that are only 8-Ohm (or higher).

 

[DaveM1785]

Thank you ProtegeManiac and PurpleAngel for your replies. I should have noted in my original post that I am limited to a $200 budget. I apologize for that omission!

I sent an email to Yamaha support asking for more information about the headphone output, but have not yet received a reply. I will wait for that and then reply here and on the Yamaha Silent Cinema Headphone Support thread again.

 

[castleofargh]

The AVR manual shows "16 Ohms or more" in the specs. It does not show headphone output power.

it's probably just a suggestion for you to plug headphones of 16ohm or more into the AVR because the design isn't as stable or clean at high output into really low impedance loads. which really applies to pretty much all amplifiers. some will simply under perform and measure slightly worst when plugged into a really low impedance load, others will really alter the sound audibly, and maybe distort as soon as you crank up the volume a little. and a few will simply get hot because the amount of current that can flow into a very low impedance load can be pretty massive sometimes.

but TBH if you're looking for headphones, and not IEMs, chances are that all the ones you will look at will be over 16ohm of impedance. so I'd say that it's a non issue for you.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thank you ProtegeManiac and PurpleAngel for your replies. I should have noted in my original post that I am limited to a $200 budget. I apologize for that omission!

I sent an email to Yamaha support asking for more information about the headphone output, but have not yet received a reply. I will wait for that and then reply here and on the Yamaha Silent Cinema Headphone Support thread again.

HE400S is a planar so it's less affected by loss of damping factor, although admittedly at 22ohm loads that "less affected" bit could be less effective. Compared to the 93dB/1mW sensitivity of the 35ohm HE400i or Sundara though the HE400S has a 98dB/1mW sensitivity that makes it easier to drive.

Safest bet really is a Massdrop X Sennheiser HD58X at 150ohms and $150(+shipping).

 

[DaveM1785]

Contacting Yamaha Support was a waste of time...16 ohms or more, they say, is all of the information that they have.

Safest bet really is a Massdrop X Sennheiser HD58X at 150ohms and $150(+shipping).

What is Massdrop? They are hiding behind a membership wall, which seems very suspect and devious to me.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Contacting Yamaha Support was a waste of time...16 ohms or more, they say, is all of the information that they have.



What is Massdrop? They are hiding behind a membership wall, which seems very suspect and devious to me.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones

 

[ricksome]

Dave: Massdrop is legit. Still in business unlike Lafayette and Allied Radio Shack. Although part of Allied is in business selling plastic covers for gas station nozels that you fill your vehicle with.

 

[DaveM1785]

I just realised that some "gaming headsets" are advertised with surround sound, but they all seem to be low impedance. Is there a way to play SACDs on a PC? I have several of those along with Audio DVDs and Blurays.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

What is Massdrop? They are hiding behind a membership wall, which seems very suspect and devious to me.

They make deals with comparnies to make certain products available at a lower price guaranteeing the sale of a certain batch of units since they keep some for RMA just in case.

By now they've gotten to the point where they're having certain custom products that are not in the manufacturers' usual retail channels.

I just realised that some "gaming headsets" are advertised with surround sound, but they all seem to be low impedance. Is there a way to play SACDs on a PC? I have several of those along with Audio DVDs and Blurays.

If you still have a computer that has a BluRay drive then that should be able to play the SACDs.

 

[tomb]

Dave: Massdrop is legit. Still in business unlike Lafayette and Allied Radio Shack. Although part of Allied is in business selling plastic covers for gas station nozels that you fill your vehicle with.

Just to be clear, only a small portion of "Allied" got absorbed by Tandy Radio Shack. Allied Electronics traces its way back to the original "Allied Electronics" founded in 1928 and is still doing a thriving business in Fort Worth, TX. It competes directly with Mouser and DigiKey on many things, but has a more industrial focus with many of its products: http://www.alliedelec.com. Internationally, they are affiliated with RS Components, the international version of Mouser/DigiKey for many international countries.