[wind016]

Quote:

 
You're right, they just play old records and talk over them.
 
I understand now.
 
/sarcasm
 

You think writing lyrics, creating beats, and playing an instrument here or there is on the same level as composing music? Come on now. I know writing lyrics is tough, but it's nowhere near as difficult as trying to write every aspect of a well composed song with lyrics. Add the amount of skill and knowledge required to play instruments well enough to compose a decent piece with them and play it in front of people. Come on.
 Kanye's only touched the surface of music production.

 

[bscott]

Quote:

Rap does not get the respect it deserves.
 
The genre has it's artistic merits yet some people will never be convinced otherwise.
 
For the record, I mostly listen to 90s rap, but Kanye West is a brilliant producer.  Even with all the craziness, he's no different than weird rock artists like Brian Wilson or Syd Barret, he just happens to be in a genre that some people don't take seriously.
 
The other day one of my coworkers said to me, "I can't stand all that gangster rap."  It was then that it dawned on me that:
 
a) Gangster has more or less been dead for 15 or so years (with some exceptions in the underground).
 
b) Most people that dislike rap only know the radio songs. 
 
That's like saying I should judge rock by the likes of Nickelback and Firehouse.
 

Wow, Firehouse.  I don't think anyone who would judge rap even remembers who Firehouse is, haha

 

[roker]

Quote:

You think writing lyrics, creating beats, and playing an instrument here or there is on the same level as composing music? Come on now. I know writing lyrics is tough, but it's nowhere near as difficult as trying to write every aspect of a well composed song with lyrics. Add the amount of skill and knowledge required to play instruments well enough to compose a decent piece with them and play it in front of people. Come on.
 Kanye's only touched the surface of music production.

I'll tell you what, listen to the samples of some of his productions, then listen to the final outcome.
 
It's more than merely sampling, it's a whole process and a lot of times it becomes a whole new beast.  Nothing says this more than Devil in a New Dress off his new album.  It's one small sample created into a whole new song.  There's a long guitar solo in the middle of it (not sampled), on top of that there are more than a few songs he's created from the ground up (piano, drums, etc.) with no samples at all.
 
There are some artists out there that, yes, more or less take an old record, add some bass and rap over it, but there are always exceptions to the rule and Kanye fits that mold well as do artists in other respective genres that stand out.

 

[jaakked]

I thought this thread was about Grado.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'm definitely not the only one who finds the RS-1i to be improved
 
Oh and on the subject of rap: isn't this just a 'what is high art' discussion? I think it's been decided that the answer is whatever critics say it is ...and for a reality check few critics take any of rock or pop be in the realm of high art (the same is not true of jazz and classical).

The problem is that rap fans equate it with high art. It isn't.

Aside from the sampling, the lyrics are extremely topical. Give it 10-20 years, and no one will understand the references. They might seem cool today, but no one will understand them in the future. The genre will be dead to future audiences.

Compare that to classical that has connected to audiences for hundreds of years.

You might enjoy rap, and that's fine. But in a few years, it will be as relevants as 1980s hair metal is today. However, good music will continue to speak to people for generations. Rap won't. Shame, because I was an early fan back in the late 1980s. It really was different back then and showed promise. There was only one AM station in LA that played rap, and I listened all the time. It was new and interesting.

Then rap turned formulaic and boring. Too bad. It could have been the next jazz.

 

[wind016]

Quote:

I'll tell you what, listen to the samples of some of his productions, then listen to the final outcome.
 
It's more than merely sampling, it's a whole process and a lot of times it becomes a whole new beast.  Nothing says this more than Devil in a New Dress off his new album.  It's one small sample created into a whole new song.  There's a long guitar solo in the middle of it (not sampled), on top of that there are more than a few songs he's created from the ground up (piano, drums, etc.) with no samples at all.
 
There are some artists out there that, yes, more or less take an old record, add some bass and rap over it, but there are always exceptions to the rule and Kanye fits that mold well as do artists in other respective genres that stand out.

Trust me when I say this. I'm getting it and look forward to how it sounds.
 

 
Quote:

The problem is that rap fans equate it with high art. It isn't.

Aside from the sampling, the lyrics are extremely topical. Give it 10-20 years, and no one will understand the references. They might seem cool today, but no one will understand them in the future. The genre will be dead to future audiences.

Compare that to classical that has connected to audiences for hundreds of years.

You might enjoy rap, and that's fine. But in a few years, it will be as relevants as 1980s hair metal is today. However, good music will continue to speak to people for generations. Rap won't. Shame, because I was an early fan back in the late 1980s. It really was different back then and showed promise. There was only one AM station in LA that played rap, and I listened all the time. It was new and interesting.

Then rap turned formulaic and boring. Too bad. It could have been the next jazz.

I think there's still promise with certain artists I've heard from Nujabes. If more rap pieces were like this, I'd have a library full of rap.
 

 

[Townyj]

Thats more like Hip Hop.. I dont mind it but the piano loop gets a tad annoying.

 

[Scornergy]

Take ya'lls rap crap and anti rap crap outta here.  This thread be about Grado's yo.  Besides, I'm pretty sure real rap died with the Sugar Hill Gang. 

 

[wind016]

Quote:

Thats more like Hip Hop.. I dont mind it but the piano loop gets a tad annoying.

O right... It's hip hop I like.
 
I also listened to Kanye's Devil In a New Dress. At least I wasn't impressed with the guitar solo though the very warm tube distortion made it sound very nice. A kid could have written that simple solo and the transitions were unimpressive to say the least. Same repetitive melody and no guitar techniques that I can hear. It did overall sound better than what I'm used to hearing on the radio. I'll see what the rest of the album can offer since it's not fair to judge this album for a guitar solo.
 
Right, this stuff is probably better off in a different thread.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

 
Gee, I'm blushing.
 
So can I rely on you to stand in the way when all the rap fans come to tar & feather me? 

 

 

ha ha I'll do my best!  Anyway's... Fellow head-fiers, this is Grado's reputation on the line here...!!
 
FORGET ABOUT MUSICAL DIFFERENCES! MY NEW SR225(is's!) ARE BRILLIANT!! their reputation is good for me. 

 

[maverickronin]

To everyone arguing about rap...
 
Please stop looking for external validation for your tastes.  No one else's opinion is relevant to yours.  The only thing that matters is if you like it.  This argument is as nonsensical as arguing about what your favorite color is.
 
To everyone arguing about art...
 
Art is entertainment.  Entertainment is art.  Snobs often call their entertainment "art" to make them feel better than everyone else.

 

[myloveilove]

the link between art and pleasure is very shallow, to say the least. though, rap and all other music don't necessarily exist to merely entertain, either. i think the pretty arrangement of sounds into patterns that amaze the brain (and likewise with anything lyrical) everytime can be thought of as entertainment, but understanding the music, however you may do that, and what is gained as a result is the art in it.
 
just my two cents anyway

 

[kn19h7]

for their humble looks and strong characteristic sound(especially in low end models), this is quite understandable as there are so many choices out there nowadays..

 

[Ouspensky]

 
Quote:

You cannot compare Kanye to Brian Wilson or Syd Barrett. Wilson and Barrett composed original works.

Kanye, and the rest, look for a catchy music riff to sample, add a heavy bass track then liberally sprikle with clichés. Nothing a computer couldn't do.

To take a genre seriously, you must have some element of music composition. You'll find it everywhere else. Taking five or six catchy bars from someone else's composition doesn't count. You'll notice that classical often takes a riff and then turns it inside out and plays all sorts of tricks with it through a composition. Better rock bands do the same. That's musically interesting. You can't just repeat the same phrase over and over, that's boring. Bananaphone has more musical depth than any rap song I've heard in the past ten years.

Musicianship is another issue. Rappers are not musicians. They can't play instruments, nor could they switch genres. Serious performers, typically, study many genres. You could take a good opera singer and drop him into a rock band or jazz ensemble. A traditional African drummer could back a country band. And a fine guitarist can cover jazz and rock out. Rappers are totally one-dimensional. They can't play other genres and neither can they actually compose music.

This is why rap gets very little respect. If a rapper started composing riffs and played them on instruments, a lot of people would take notice. Similarly, the lyrics would have to get away from the database of rap tropes. And if they actually learned to sing - maybe occasionally knocking off small performances in other genres - that would be remarkable. But that just doesn't happen in rap.

The typical fans are another problem. Music education is almost dead. When you're handed an instrument in elementary school and play a wide variety of music, you learn a lot. Most of the teachers will give you an intro to composition and explain a lot of what's happening in the music. I had a great youth and teacher who took us through every element of a traditional march. Others went into classical, jazz, rock, and much else. The more you know about music, the more you appreciate it. But if you've never been exposed to the how and why you'll never understand why some is good and some is bad. You'll just look for something with a danceable beat and completely miss out on a lot of wonderful music because you don't understand it.

In lots of ways, there's a monstrous appeal to ignorance in today's society. You have people who know nothing trying to equate their ignorance with others' knowledge. That their opinion deserves the same consideration as any other despite knowing nothing. Further, some are quite proud about knowing nothing because those who do are "haters."

That's a bunch of crap.
 

You spoke the words of truth.
 
Now on to Grado: IMHO any headphone costing more than 200 bucks should come with something else than just a pizza box. Sound quality will only get you so far.  I'll take an SA5000 or any top Beyer anyday over the top grado line.

 

[jaakked]

"Sound quality will get you so far"-I would say this quote clearly illustrates the mentality we're dealing with here.
 
Want a cookie with those grados??
 
I must be completely stupid,I own a Grado rs1i and a Beyer T1.
 
 
 
 
Quote:

 

You spoke the words of truth.
 
Now on to Grado: IMHO any headphone costing more than 200 bucks should come with something else than just a pizza box. Sound quality will only get you so far.  I'll take an SA5000 or any top Beyer anyday over the top grado line.