[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert /img/forum/go_quote.gif All of their music is a part of popular culture, so in the broad sense they are certainly all pop musicians. The opposite of a pop musician would be a musician whose audience always wears dresses or ties. Or else a musician who has no audience.

I understand that pop connotes "popular." But what is the use of the term if that's all it means? What does it tell you about the music other than lots of people buy it? Lots of people buy Beethoven symphonies. Is that pop?

 

[Denim]

I always thought of pop music as whatever was at the top of the music charts, regardless of the genre. After reading this thread, I'd say that my understanding is wrong. I believe the AMG write-up says it best.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif If he thinks of "Alternative" as 'another' abusively bad term (in reference to Pop) then I think it is fair to say that he doesn't care for the term.--Jerome

I don't mind the term when it is applied in a meaningful and consistent way. Was Frank Sinatra a pop singer? Most people would say so. Were The Ramones a pop group? I've seen them referred to as such many times. What does Frank Sinatra's music have in common with The Ramones's music that would place them under the same "pop" umbrella?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pretty soon someone is going to chime in and argue that it all depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is...

Bill Clinton already covered that issue.

 

[fatcat28037]

In the Midwest it's any soft drink, and if I remember correctly.......it's the way the weasel goes.

 

[Zorander]

The first thing that went through my mind when I read that word was that it referred to the male parent, i.e. dad/father/etc.

Am I hopeless?

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't mind the term when it is applied in a meaningful and consistent way.

How many terms are ever used in a meaningful and consistent way? Words can mean many things to many people, and quite often we must use an oversimplified shorthand to convey ideas. Luckily, we have the benefits of context to let us know the meaning of a sentence.

"The Ramones, while inventing punk, remained at their core a pop band devoted to simple rhythms and solid melodies."

"Frank Sinatra, while esteemed by many as a jazz vocalist, is considered by most to be a pop singer because the accessibility of his music and his singing style."

Its actually pretty simple.

 

[Spyro]

The term doesn't have a lot of significance these days. I consider it from back in the day when there were only 3-4 different genre's played on AM radio (oldies, jazz, pop/rock, and classical). The "pop" made up the most played songs on AM radio ("Top 40") which were also sold as 45 rpm vinyl records.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many terms are ever used in a meaningful and consistent way? Words can mean many things to many people, and quite often we must use an oversimplified shorthand to convey ideas. Luckily, we have the benefits of context to let us know the meaning of a sentence. "The Ramones, while inventing punk, remained at their core a pop band devoted to simple rhythms and solid melodies." "Frank Sinatra, while esteemed by many as a jazz vocalist, is considered by most to be a pop singer because the accessibility of his music and his singing style." Its actually pretty simple.

If "simple rhythms and solid melodies" define pop, then this is a very,very broad term. How does that qualify as "shorthand?" Shorthand for what?

 

[TheAnomaly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatticus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was in a pub one night and had New Order's "Get Ready" cd in my pocket so asked them to play it for me, which they did. A girl of about 20 came up to me and said, so, you like pop music. Since when is New Order considered pop music?

well, if you want to, you could call them synth pop. but really, that wouldn't be doing them justice if you ask me.

to me pop is more of an identifying qualifier than anything else. for instance, something might be R&B, some sub genre of R&B, but also called pop. to me pop is not really a genre because the term refers to so much, though it is generally some form of lighter rock, electronica, R&B, and the like.

generally speaking, i don't like pop and find it a little too manufactured and sterile. it's also known for mostly being a follower, and not getting too "out there". in other words, for whatever genre or style it is, it's accessible, and meant to be that way. sometimes it ranges off into the inane, other times it can be great, but all "pop" is exactly what the abbreviation states...it's popular. it's in the top 40s. you can hear it on the radio. it has the highest sales. if you ask some random, "ordinary" person about it, they're probably familiar, and may have heard it.

 

[Gatticus]

Yea, and New Order has never been had one hit on the radio in North America so over here they are not pop at all. They have had a couple of club hits and that's it.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAnomaly /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, if you want to, you could call them synth pop. but really, that wouldn't be doing them justice if you ask me.

Sure, New Order had some things in common with the synth pop bands (Human League, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, etc...) but I always thought of them as Joy Division 2.0. Definately a rock band. It is nowhere written that rockers can't use synths.

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif If "simple rhythms and solid melodies" define pop, then this is a very,very broad term. How does that qualify as "shorthand?" Shorthand for what?

Pop is a very very broad term, just as pop is a very broad range of music. That doesn't make the term worthless, just very malleable. Jazz is very broad term, but it still represents something. The edges of that something is always up for debate, but it does represent a general shorthand for most people.

 

[Thelonious Monk]

the correct definition of popular music is anything that isn't erudite music. i guess.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pop is a very very broad term, just as pop is a very broad range of music. That doesn't make the term worthless, just very malleable. Jazz is very broad term, but it still represents something. The edges of that something is always up for debate, but it does represent a general shorthand for most people.

Jazz is a very broad term, yes. But Miles Davis (himself the recipient of critical hatred for his experimentation) famously referred to Ornette Coleman's music as "psychotic." And Wynton Marsalis, one of the greatest jazz players and conceptualists of all time, has routinely dismissed people like Cecil Taylor as artists whose music, good or bad, is not jazz.

I guess I'm arguing against myself here, because I consider both Coleman and Taylor to be pioneering jazz (and classical...different thread, sorry) musicians.

 

[TheAnomaly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, New Order had some things in common with the synth pop bands (Human League, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, etc...) but I always thought of them as Joy Division 2.0. Definately a rock band. It is nowhere written that rockers can't use synths.

eh. their 80s stuff is really synth heavy...to much so for me to consider them a rock band. i don't believe in distinct genre classifications for bands, so i would probably call New Order 3-5 things, depending on exactly what period you're talking about, and because defining music is so difficult in the first place.