[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid /img/forum/go_quote.gif my parents are going through a terrible divorce and they live in New Jersey, without getting into the specficis basically my mom has been cheating on my dad and planning the divorce for at least 5 years, nobody in our family knew about it and now she is basically cashing out. she is taking half of everything my dad owns including his buisnes which he is basically being forced to sell, he will also have to pay a very hefty allamony so my mom is set for life. he has done everything he could to reconsile. New Jersey has no considerations for the nature of the divorce, who initiated it and for what reasons it's 50/50 regardless. im wondering what the different divorce laws are around the country and even the world. thanks

I agree completely, only people who have the utmost contempt for justice and marriage could have designed no-fault marital law. It is the same in the UK and a close relative of minehas been similarly treated and another relative of mine has done the treatment. Appalling. So sorry your family has to go through this.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I think that the thing that we have to remember is that there are two sides in every marriage, and unless you're in that marriage, and can be inside their heads every second, that you can't know the full story. Only they know the score.

Yes that is true. Though one also has to remember that is true of anything. Do we know what goes in the murderers head, what his relationship was to the murdered, what the murdered had done to him - do we know the two sides? But the law can and should punish specific acts of wrongdoing even without knowing the full story.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, I wandered into the Men Only section. I wouldn't be so quick to judge what a Housewife would be rightfully entitled to. Regardless of how easy you think it is, it is a job, and it is certainly possible that a housewife would be entitled to compensation. That's the opposite of utter crap.

Yes but that shouldn't mean you can go and commit adultery and then go to the courts and say I am entitled to all this. Same goes for a man just as well as a woman.
Quote:

I don't buy the theories here that all women are this that or the other. If it is true of women, it is certainly true of men as well. People are people, ya know?

Absoutely. The thing is, if one person is clearly at fault, man or woman, that should be recognised.

 

[plainsong]

You get no argument over here. I wasn't pro the no fault divorce, I just wanted to point out that there are times when a woman who hasn't financially pulled her weight could of course be entitled for all the blood sweat and tears she contributed.

It would be a mistake for the OP to burn his bridges with his mom now. Yeah, it's great to feel all superior and in the right, but what good is it without the family you rejected because of it?

And it would be another shame to reject outright the idea of sharing your life with someone just because some guys in a forum told you so, or because your mom made a mistake.

Wouldn't it be great if people talked about these beliefs before the marriage? I don't want to be a homemaker, and then marry some guy I had no idea totally didn't respect that role. I wouldn't want to be someone who was had a business, marrying someone who believed by default they were entitled to it, before any contribution was ever made to it. I wouldn't want to marry someone who didn't believe I could make any contribution of value... you see here these are core ideas of what marriage even is to people. And you only find in the divorce that "oops, we don't believe the same things, see your @ss in court." And to think that maybe the divorce would have been prevented by never marrying.

I wanted to use words like maybe, sometimes, and possible, because you can't speak for all marriages...

which would be the issue with the no-fault divorce.

At least there aren't no-fault murders.

 

[CSMR]

Yes I do think that has become necessary these days.
Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least there aren't no-fault murders.

I was just thinking that might be a good thing: then these law-makers would get their come-uppance! We could allocate their estates in the best interest of the remaining party.

 

[plainsong]

I was thinking the same thing

Why not? It works so well.

 

[blessingx]

Euclid, I know you're going through tough times, and at least right now (and maybe always) it appears the system is on the wrong side in your case. Again sorry for that, but your and other comments are being made in a public forum and if some of you are angry with "self-help books written by other bitter menopausal women" and "activist judges" trying to "strip any hard working American of all they have" we're leaving Euclids specific case and starting to make general statements some of us are going to have to respond to. Head-fi (and likely most boards overwhelming one gender) tend to have anti-the other gender tendencies. Most of the time that's just letting off steam ("my wife doesn't understand the need for another headphone"), but it should be kept in check if it goes beyond that. If this thread started from a relationship getting ugly, lets keep this thread from doing the same. There are ways to discuss the subjects at hand without an undertone of bashing.

 

[Xakepa]

Really sad to hear that, Euclid

In the humble and recently prosperous Republic of Bulgaria (where me and my wife are from), divorce law is 4 pages AFAIR. Court allways decided "in the best interest of the children", custodial guardian is usually the bread maker if there is one (usually not the case because both parents are working on modest but similar income jobs) and alimony is not an major incentive for various reasons. 50/50 does not apply, "no-fault divorce" is considered nonsense (there's "divorce by mutual agreement", where the "guilt" is left undetermined), almost everything goes to the custodial guardian. And adultery will all but guarantee custodial rights, so does the ruling on the property.

 

[plainsong]

Thank you, blessingx. I didn't want to be the one to say it.

I know he's angry at his mom though, who can't understand that? But, womankind is not out to get you.

It's tough for a woman to come in and say that, reading posts that you know all come from very real pain. But even in Euclid's very specific case, she's still your mom. Don't make choices to win an argument, but loose your mom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Euclid, I know you're going through tough times, and at least right now (and maybe always) it appears the system is on the wrong side in your case. Again sorry for that, but your and other comments are being made in a public forum and if some of you are angry with "self-help books written by other bitter menopausal women" and "activist judges" trying to "strip any hard working American of all they have" we're leaving Euclids specific case and starting to make general statements some of us are going to have to respond to. Head-fi (and likely most boards overwhelming one gender) tend to have anti-the other gender tendencies. Most of the time that's just letting off steam ("my wife doesn't understand the need for another headphone"), but it should be kept in check if it goes beyond that. If this thread started from a relationship getting ugly, lets keep this thread from doing the same. There are ways to discuss the subjects at hand without an undertone of bashing.

 

[flamerz]

After reading this thread, I've realized (or got reminded of) two things. 1. There are some serious problems with the law. 2. Women are evil.

Anyway, even though it's early, I think about marriage sometimes, and when I do think about that, I can't imagine ever getting a divorce. It just seems like I know I'm patient enough to get married after I'm sure my wife is a great (I'd use the word perfect, but that just seems ignorant when talking about love) match for me. Though in the back of my mind, I know it's definitely a possibility. I'm sure no one in these examples saw divorce coming when they decided to marry. There's nothing that excludes me from this possibility. It's slightly depressing. I agree that pre-nup just makes it seem like there isn't trust in a relationship, even though it's just a precaution. Until pre-nup becomes very common, I doubt I'll consider it. I'll probably think about this more another time.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It's not entirely fair to blame it on the lawyers, either. Sure, there are billable hours involved, but that's always up front with the client. You're not able to settle a case without client approval, either. They are the ones who drive the litigation. The costs are laid out for them in writing, usually several times (with each phase of the case) and they decide how it is going to go. It's easy to make the connection between the money and the litigation, but what people don't see are clients crying, screaming, demanding, and even threatening in your office. It is not fun.

Also, I should add that clients know if you're milking the hours and, of course, are never happy about that. How could anyone be? They get a billing statement every month, with your time and work broken down on it.

As for the actual laws, I encourage anyone unhappy with them to take it up with your state legislature. I spent a session as chief of staff to a state senator a few years back, and they do listen to constituents and propose legislation based on constituent recommendations. Quite a bit of state legislation comes from it, believe it or not. If you'd like to see change, make an appointment and spend some time drafting recommendations. If you know others in your situation, have them help out and organize. That's lobbying, and everyone can do it.

 

[Jon L]

You know how most married men tell you not to do it? You joke and laugh with them and get married anyway. Now you ARE one of those men who say "don't do it," but now you realize those men were actually serious

 

[Tuberoller]

I'm not going to continue on the women bashing path but I do have to say that the entire institution of marriage is suited most to women. What guy have any of us ever known whom actually cared anything about a wedding cerimony? Have you ever known a guy who had any part in planning his own wedding? How about even picking his own tux or adding even a single gift to that registry that was meant only for him. I'm just saying, from the engagement ring to the divorce, marriage is very much biased in favor of women. If you see it any different I'd say that you've never been married or attended a wedding.

 

[CSMR]

Men don't care about the ceremony in general, but many do want to marry, and well that is why they get married isn't it?

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not entirely fair to blame it on the lawyers, either. Sure, there are billable hours involved, but that's always up front with the client. You're not able to settle a case without client approval, either. They are the ones who drive the litigation. The costs are laid out for them in writing, usually several times (with each phase of the case) and they decide how it is going to go. It's easy to make the connection between the money and the litigation, but what people don't see are clients crying, screaming, demanding, and even threatening in your office. It is not fun. Also, I should add that clients know if you're milking the hours and, of course, are never happy about that. How could anyone be? They get a billing statement every month, with your time and work broken down on it. As for the actual laws, I encourage anyone unhappy with them to take it up with your state legislature. I spent a session as chief of staff to a state senator a few years back, and they do listen to constituents and propose legislation based on constituent recommendations. Quite a bit of state legislation comes from it, believe it or not. If you'd like to see change, make an appointment and spend some time drafting recommendations. If you know others in your situation, have them help out and organize. That's lobbying, and everyone can do it.

great advice!

2x strongly!