What are head-fi members views on apt-x lossless codec (over bluetooth)?
Feb 9, 2015 at 6:51 AM Post #151 of 460

james444

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Is the QY3 miles behind the LG in terms of sound quality?  The LG appears to be around double the price and I'm not really willing to fork out that much for Bluetooth.
Have you heard of Mocreo before?

 
No it isn't, and I'm actually quite happy with it after prolonged use. If you don't mind the possibly reversed L/R channels, there's no reason to fork out more imo.
 
Don't have any experience with Mocreo, I'm afraid.
 
Feb 19, 2015 at 5:45 PM Post #152 of 460

lennyr

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Does anyone know of a Bt 4.x / AptX / AptX-LL Class 1 Source/Transmitter that can plug into an analog 1/4" or 3.5mm jack?  I want to be able to use my Elecom LBT-PAR500 with my AVR. 
 
I've found a few things like this http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00NMPKVQ8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3HB86WKTMD39R&coliid=IMMJI5GMMKFPE but they all seem to have Class 2 radios.
 
Feb 26, 2015 at 1:56 AM Post #153 of 460

ClieOS

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  Does anyone know of a Bt 4.x / AptX / AptX-LL Class 1 Source/Transmitter that can plug into an analog 1/4" or 3.5mm jack?  I want to be able to use my Elecom LBT-PAR500 with my AVR. 
 
I've found a few things like this http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00NMPKVQ8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3HB86WKTMD39R&coliid=IMMJI5GMMKFPE but they all seem to have Class 2 radios.

 
If your AVR is in the same room, a Class 2 transmitter should be fine. BT Classes is just a indication of its transmitting power and not about compatibility. You can certainly mix and match different classes together as long as they are within the receiving range of each other.
 
Feb 26, 2015 at 11:15 AM Post #154 of 460

b00tang

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James,
Thanks for the reviews. If you keep trying new headsets I hope you keep the updates coming. I decided to give the QCY QY3 a try based on your impressions and the super low price. I took a risk on a random seller (gearbest.com) so if I actually end up getting something that works in the mail I'll post impressions.
 
Feb 28, 2015 at 11:55 PM Post #155 of 460

lennyr

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If your AVR is in the same room, a Class 2 transmitter should be fine. BT Classes is just a indication of its transmitting power and not about compatibility. You can certainly mix and match different classes together as long as they are within the receiving range of each other.

 
Yeah, it would be fine in my living room, but I'd like to be able to walk about the house.
 
Mar 1, 2015 at 3:51 AM Post #156 of 460

ClieOS

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I just found these last night as I am searching around for an atpX USB adapter myself:
 
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B007PVKOO4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5
 
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B5%E3%83%B3%E3%83%AF%E3%82%B5%E3%83%97%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4-Bluetooth-USB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-class1-MM-BTUD43/dp/B00HX64XUM/ref=pd_sim_computers_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BZSCPHH9FTQRSVJF7YT
 
Both are class 1 BT4.0, aptX supported. They are obviously being sold in Japan and no place else. But even with forwarding service fee included, they should still come out under US$50.
 
Mar 7, 2015 at 1:27 PM Post #157 of 460

Giogio

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  Does anyone know of a Bt 4.x / AptX / AptX-LL Class 1 Source/Transmitter that can plug into an analog 1/4" or 3.5mm jack?  I want to be able to use my Elecom LBT-PAR500 with my AVR. 
 
I've found a few things like this http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00NMPKVQ8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3HB86WKTMD39R&coliid=IMMJI5GMMKFPE but they all seem to have Class 2 radios.

Can you explain your setup?
At first, I do not know what AVR stands for.
Then, you talk of jack but then you say to ClieOS that those USB Dongles are what you look for.
So, what have you planned?
Apart for the AVR which I have no idea what it is, I have understood that you have some non bluetooth headphones which you transform in bluetooth with the Elecom receiver.
Is this right?
I suppose this Elecom is Class 1, for you to look for a Class 1 transmitter.
But, WHERE do you need to plug this transmitter?
 
  I just found these last night as I am searching around for an atpX USB adapter myself:
 
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B007PVKOO4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5
 
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B5%E3%83%B3%E3%83%AF%E3%82%B5%E3%83%97%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4-Bluetooth-USB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-class1-MM-BTUD43/dp/B00HX64XUM/ref=pd_sim_computers_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BZSCPHH9FTQRSVJF7YT
 
Both are class 1 BT4.0, aptX supported. They are obviously being sold in Japan and no place else. But even with forwarding service fee included, they should still come out under US$50.

That is a nice info.
People with a Plantronics Backbeat Pro (the only Class 1 Headphone on the Market) will be happy.
I myself at home use another headphone at the moment. I wonder if a class 1 dongle will, when paired with a class 2 headphone, give still a better range than a class 2 dongle.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 2:18 PM Post #158 of 460

lennyr

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  Can you explain your setup?
At first, I do not know what AVR stands for.
Then, you talk of jack but then you say to ClieOS that those USB Dongles are what you look for.
So, what have you planned?
Apart for the AVR which I have no idea what it is, I have understood that you have some non bluetooth headphones which you transform in bluetooth with the Elecom receiver.
Is this right?
I suppose this Elecom is Class 1, for you to look for a Class 1 transmitter.
But, WHERE do you need to plug this transmitter?
 
That is a nice info.
People with a Plantronics Backbeat Pro (the only Class 1 Headphone on the Market) will be happy.
I myself at home use another headphone at the moment. I wonder if a class 1 dongle will, when paired with a class 2 headphone, give still a better range than a class 2 dongle.


I was mistaken re those USB dongles.  What I need is something with an analog stereo jack (1/4" or adapter-able) that will take that analog output, convert it to Bluetooth/AptX, and transmit it on a Class 1 radio. I will plug this into the headphone jack of my AVR (an Onkyo TX-NR818).

AVR stands for "audio video receiver".

Yes, I use normal headphones with the Elecom reciever, and it has a Class 1 radio. The headphones I usually use with it, fwiw, are Yuin PK3, AKG Q701, and AT AD900.

I use the Elecom PAR500 with a variety of Bluetooth/AptX devices. They all have Class 2 radios.  There is no range improvement.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 3:54 PM Post #159 of 460

Giogio

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I was mistaken re those USB dongles.  What I need is something with an analog stereo jack (1/4" or adapter-able) that will take that analog output, convert it to Bluetooth/AptX, and transmit it on a Class 1 radio. I will plug this into the headphone jack of my AVR (an Onkyo TX-NR818).

It does not exist yet.
Sorry.
But keep searching, I may be wrong, or it may come soon.
I know that Avantree is working on something with Antenna. It will be Class 2, but it will, at least, (they say) have more range, due to the antenna.
 
There may already be other ones with antenna, I only know one which is not aptx.
Avantree will be Low Latency Aptx.
I am not aware ow any antenna adapter with Aptx, but you may have a look in Jessy Anderson website... List of Aptx Devices.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 9:23 PM Post #160 of 460

turbobb

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@lennyr - also not aware of any Class 1 BT 4.0 transmitters featuring aptX but if you can live without those two features, the Miccus RTX is sorta class 1 (transmits up to 150') and you can hook it up to the HP (or line out) of your AVR. 
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 9:48 PM Post #161 of 460

Giogio

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@Class D used to say that the Class is just a matter of antenna.
So, if he is right, I suppose that if you make something like this miccus and it reaches the 150, it is Class 1. = Class 1 is anything which can reach at least 100ft. So, take a "class 2" device, mod it with a bigger antenna, and if it reaches 100ft, it becomes class 1.
But in this way of seeing it there is something missing. Because the fact that BOTH devices must be Class 1, let me think to some kind of negotiation. Like in Aptx.
Because, if it was just a matter of antenna like Class D says, then, if one Class 1 device can send the signal up to 100ft, it would reach a class 2 device placed within 100ft, so it should be enough that one is class1.
 
Unless the real definitio of class 1 is "a device which can reach 50ft", so that two together meet at ther limit and make 100ft together.
Which is kind of romantic.
 
Anybody knows how it really is?
 
And, as I am in mood for questions and i have eaten too much pizza to be able to sleep:
Aptx is often compared to AAC.
But, how does AAC work?
If I have an AAC headphone and an AAC phone, and I play an mp3 file, will the phone encode the mp3 in AAC on the fly to transmit it to the headphone?
Or will the phone use the AAC codec only if I play AAC files? Which kind of sucks, because it is 3, not 2 conditions: source, receiver, and file...
 
Cheers
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 12:20 AM Post #162 of 460

ClieOS

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It isn't just a bigger antenna, you'll need bigger output power as well.
 
AAC over Bluetooth is mainly an Apple's thing. As we all know, Apple like to use their own standard instead of going for the common solution (probably to have tighten control on who get to play with them), so aptX isn't likely going to be found on any Apple anytime soon. So to improve upon the basic SBC codec, Apple implements AAC over Bluetooth instead, and many Apple accessories maker follow suit. Basically it is around 250kbps encoded, so it is about the same as a 320kbps encoded mp3 - and yes, you need both the source (i,e, iPhone) and receiver (i.e. wireless headphone) to support AAC in order for it to work, or else they will fall back to SBC as default. But no, you don't need to play AAC only files. It only means the encoding and decoding on transmitter to receiver (*the actual Bluetooth transmission ) is AAC.
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 12:48 AM Post #163 of 460

james444

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  @lennyr - also not aware of any Class 1 BT 4.0 transmitters featuring aptX but if you can live without those two features, the Miccus RTX is sorta class 1 (transmits up to 150') and you can hook it up to the HP (or line out) of your AVR. 

 
https://miccusblog.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/bluetooth-music-and-latency/
 
Can aptx technology help with this scenario as well? Yes! In fact, our new long range transmitter (still in development) features aptx technology ...

 
Mar 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM Post #164 of 460

Class D

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Hi Giogio,
 
Actually, BT Class 1 will require more than just an improved antenna.  It will include a tiny Power Amp (PA) transistor and a capacitor to tune the antenna.  This would not be an easy modification to a BT Class 2 source.  Nevertheless, these components are relatively low cost.  Because of the PA driving the antenna, the overall power requirement of this BT source will go up.  This makes it impractical for portable applications, like a mobile phone or iPod, but okay for a BT source receiving its power from the mains.
 
In my past life, I worked with a BT Class 1 dongle (prototype).  It was a small circuit board which received power from an 5V AC adapter.  I could pair it up to a BT Class 2 headphone and walk around the house and outside (approx. 100 ft) listening to audio content from an iPod, for instance.  Occasionally, the wireless connection would break and come back as I came into line of sight of the Class 1 source.  You will also experience the same thing with WiFi  in your home.  Nothing works perfectly with wireless consumer electronics.  As an aside, I have the Motorola S11-Flex HD BT headphones with Aptx.  They are Class 2, but Motorola claims extended range up to 150 ft.  I can verify that they have great range, although I've never measured it myself.  My guess is that Motorola has made some enhancements to the BT radio in these headphones.
 
Just FYI, you can't take a radio that transmits to 50' and pair it with a receiver capable of 50' and expect the ranges to be additive.  You will simply lose your connection at anything over 50'.  You can blame Guglielmo Marconi, often credited as the inventor of radio, for this.
 
Aptx, AAC, and MP3 along with many more are codecs.  They code and decode analog content for purposes of digitization and file compression.  Aptx is an enhanced codec that works with BT A2DP.  You will only see it used between a BT source and sink.  It is a replacement for the built-in sub-band coding, SBC, found in the BT spec.  Both the sink and source must be running Aptx, otherwise the transmission will use the default SBC codec.  AAC and MP3 codecs are used to store audio content in digital format on a disk drive or other storage medium.  They are software programs that require powerful microprocessors to code and decode analog content, like music.  There are lots of audio codecs out there used for various applications.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_coding_formats
 
An AAC headphone makes no sense to me.  The Aptx or SBC codec will decode the digital bitstream to an analog left/right signal and send it to the audio amplifier for volume control, mute, and equalization among other things in your headphone and then to the tiny speaker.  I've seen where some headphone manufacturers say their product is AAC or MP3 capable just to say the headphones work with Apple iPods (AAC) and MP3 players.  Your phone will likely have an AAC codec to read Apple iTunes files, most do.  The codec will decode the audio files stored in AAC format on your phone and create an analog stereo signal for your speaker, BT module, charging connector, or 3.5 mm output jack.  Some phones have the MP3 codec to handle .MP3 files on your phone.  MP3 is a very popular format used in today's audio, however, not all audio manufacturers support it because the royalties aren't cheap.  Nevertheless, it's a great codec.
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 1:26 AM Post #165 of 460

Class D

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Quote:  ClieOS
  So to improve upon the basic SBC codec, Apple implements AAC over Bluetooth instead, and many Apple accessories maker follow suit.

 
I wasn't aware that Apple was using the AAC codec as a replacement for the BT SBC codec in their BT source devices.  Thanks for the input.  The AAC codec would be a great improvement over the built-in BT SBC codec.  Sound Quality and latency would be very good.  I'd really like to see a professional comparison between AAC and Aptx as a replacement for SBC.
 
I take back what I said about an AAC headphone........
L3000.gif
   Based on what ClieOS said, it now makes sense to me.
 

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