[random53]

Hi everybody, still reeling and trying to digest all the the help I got yesterday on this thread.
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=43374

It seems there is a lot more to headphone audio than I could have imagined and that this is the forum to find out about it.

One of the things that became clear is that there isn't a good universal player source in my price range. So far I like the modded players and will probably get one to tide me over, but realistically it doesnt sound like this is going to be a component with a long lifespan.

Then it hit me, there are components that are ready for prime time, they have been arround for long enough at least, what about vinyl? My biggest problem is that I know absolutelly nothing about them.

So can anybody point me in the right direction on what a vinyl setup would look like and what the price range we are talking about would be? looking for something that can beat the modded players and looks good (this is going to be an office setup and would like it to be a conversation piece). btw, I am not doing research to buy at a latter time, I want to buy this week, today if possible *grin*. I love second hand hi-fi components, always try to buy used when possible.

My headphone setup currently consists of the Grado RS1 (will be here this week), from the suggestions on the previous thread I am very interested in the mpx3 amp. My musical taste is mostly Jazz, classical, new age. I really wouldn't know what a realistic price range would be

Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[jumpy]

I wouldn't head down the vinyl road in your case.
1. Price:
Modern turntables are IMO the best looking pieces of audio equipment around, but for a half-decent starter TT you're gonna have to plunk down between $400 and $800. A system to write home about will probably start at around $2500-4000.
For less than that your best bet may to pick up a good old one on ebay or at a garage sale. (read: good and old, not good ol'. Old doesn't = good by definition)
Then you're going to need phono stage.

2. Media:
From what I gather you have no music on vinyl, so your current CD collection will be useless. Most of the cheapest LPs in good condition are about the price of a cd, but a lot of them are 2 or 3 times as much, and not just older music ones.
Further finding vinyls is a lot harder than just picking up digital media at a store. Some pieces may be hard to find, and others might not be available at all on vinyl.
Finally take into account that skipping around with tracks are more complicated, which could be a pain in an office environment.

I don't want to discourage you from vinyl in general; only in what respects to your current requirements.

The modded route seems like a good one; or even the 963SA, which a lot of folks are happy with. If you want SACD and DVD-A the universal pioneers (e.g. DV-563A) seem pretty good from what ppl have said. You have to take the low price into account regarding ppls satisfaction with these systems.
I'd go with that for now and save up for something better (digital or analog) in the future.

 

[random53]

Jumpy, thanks for the response. I have taken a look arround possible TT solutions and the price does concern me. I was not worried when I saw the 400-800 starting cost, but I really was not counting on multi-thousand dollar cartriges and phono stage.

I was also concerned when I read reviews that TT works best with speakers, this is going to be a headphone only setup and some people where concerned with background noise and pops from low end turntable solution.

I still think that I may come up with something in my price range,
It seems that I am going to need a TT, arm, cartrige, phono stage, interconnects.

Does anybody have any recomendations for something that works well with headphones and that looks interesting.

Thanks

 

[zowie]

Track down an AT Sound Burger. Ca. $250.

 

[random53]

Now that is a conversation piece!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2186957945

I can dig it, how does it sound?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by random53 Now that is a conversation piece! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2186957945 I can dig it, how does it sound?

That thing will chew up a record collection in no time. It's a novelty item, but should be avoided if you want to play LPs.

You can get a decent vinyl setup for about $700. Musical Fidelity MMF-5 is often seen for less than $500 complete with cartridge. Figure about $200 for decent entry level phono preamp (Actually, you can get a decent battery powered one at Radio Shack for about $25, but you'll replace that pretty quickly). Older receivers and preamps will have a phono amp built in.

You're also going to need to budget for record cleaning, stylus cleaning, turntable isolation, and of course LP's.

If you're into the vintage gear (and are willing to do a bit of refurbishment), take a look at pictures of the recent meet at my place in the Member's Lounge. The Fisher 400 receiver has a good headphone jack, phono amp, FM tuner, and can drive speakers if you want. OTOH, if you go that route, get ready to learn about tubes in a hurry, as it uses 19 tubes more or less.

 

[fewtch]

Sheesh... if I'd been the one who started this thread thinking about getting into vinyl playback, I probably would have abandoned all hope by now and just went out and bought another CD.

It doesn't hurt to start at bottom and work your way up when it comes to vinyl, especially these days when entry-level playback has come a long way since the 60's and 70's. The Music Hall MMF-2.1 is often available used for about $200 from places like Audiogon.com, and I've even seen reasonably happy MMF-1 listeners posting on the Vinyl Asylum (although I wouldn't start that low myself -- it's important to be able to replace cartridges if you don't like the sound). Definitely check out Audiogon and try searching on "Music Hall" or "Music Hall MMF" for some results. Check out the classifieds, in particular. The Music Hall tables often come with cartridges preinstalled, and if you like the sound well enough you may not even need to buy one separately.

As far as cartridges in general, $100 is more than enough to start with these days; the Shure M97xE and Audio-Technica AT440ML (among others) will deliver excellent sound at a bargain price. Inexpensive and good phono stages can be tricky, but even these have proliferated at the lower end over the past few years; although I can't vouch for SQ, here's a recent example:

http://www.store.yahoo.com/decibelch...halphonpa.html

random53, drop by the Vinyl Asylum sometime at Audioasylum.com -- it's generally very friendly compared to some of the other wacked-out forums around those parts, and there's a large number of very knowledgeable people who could give you suggestions as to where to start (but it's a good idea to do some research first, so you don't drop in completely raw and green and have to ask others to do all your research for you; that's generally not appreciated and you may end up getting ignored, or just not get very helpful responses).

Don't hesitate to jump in with both feet if vinyl interests you. You can probably get away with spending in the $400 range for an entry level *new* setup (turntable, cartridge, phono stage); if you're willing to do a lot of research and get a good vintage table like a Thorens TD-145 or TD-160, maybe a well-regarded older preamp with built in phono stage, you could conceivably get your feet wet in the $250-$300 range. Just don't start with one of the cheap plastic tables being sold at places like buy.com -- they sound terrible.

P.S. I listen to vinyl exclusively with headphones, and don't have any issue with surface noise that I wouldn't also with speakers.

 

[zowie]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch That thing will chew up a record collection in no time. It's a novelty item, but should be avoided if you want to play LPs.

Today it's a novelty item today, but it was designed during the vinyl era to be used. It's got a standard AT magnetic cart like that which used to come on any lower end japanese turntables in the 80s. There was even a version of the Sound Burger made by Dual.

I wouldn't be playing audiophile pressings on it, but it won't hurt your records any more than the BSR changers found in everyone's compact Sony, Panasonic, Fisher, Zenith system 20 years ago or the plastic component turntables that are selling for $80-$100 at the big box stores today.

 

[random53]

fewtch,
I agree with you on the "do some research first" part. I am learning as fast as I can thanks to these forums.

The MMF5 seems to be highly regarded sonically, however I am afraid that I really don't find anything interesting about the way it looks, and this is somewhat important. I really want this setup to be a conversation piece.

I have seen in audiogon a complete rega p3/rb300/elys for ~600, the rega in certain colors doesn't look too bad allthough not quite what I am looking for. The best TT that it looks like I can afford from the discussions in this forums would be the vpi aries scout that is going for ~1500 with arm and dyna 20 cartridge in audiogon. Let me know if these are "too good to pass deals", it is going to take five weeks for my amp to be built so I have some time to look arround the classifieds.

I have been able to find a Michell tt locally, it is gorgeous but seems well out of my price range, can somebody tell me about the overall quality of these tables?

I am going to look at today at a used Musical Fidelity x-lp going at 100$, would this be a good buy?

Where would be a good place to find more information about taking care of lps and tables? This is yet another area that I had not thought about looking into.
Thanks for all the info

 

[gbeard]

A very good starting point:

Music Hall MMF-7 --includes a very nice moving coil cartridge. Usually available for less than $900.

Creek OBH-9-SE Moving coil phono stage-- Excellent starter around $350, but used or demos abound for way less.


For even less:

Music Hall MMF-5--includes moving magnet cart.,around $500 new.
Creek OBH-8-SE --moving magnet phono stage $200 used

Remember these are starting points and do not include all interconnect cables. I have had experience with all these products except the OBH-9-SE, and they are excellent for the money. These turntables are easy to set up for a novice, however they are not upgradable so if you catch the fever...

Oops! Sorry Hirsch, didn't mean to step on your recommendations. But I hardily second them!

 

[fewtch]

If you're buying for looks or as a conversation piece, you might consider something vintage on Ebay (if the vintage look is what you want) and perhaps restore the table yourself. There are plenty of newer tables where looks play a primary part in their appeal, but they tend to be quite expensive. Check out some of the tables at www.needledoctor.com .

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by random53 I am going to look at today at a used Musical Fidelity x-lp going at 100$, would this be a good buy?

Yes. If you can find an X-PSU power supply (there are inexpensive equivalents), it becomes even better.

The Scout retails about $1600 without cartridge, so it's a decent deal. However, I'm very cautious buying used turntables and cartridges. There's just too much that can go wrong, and you don't have warranty protection. I'd check out places like Music Direct or Elusive Disk and see if they have any demo items for sale. Many other dealers will sell stock this way also. It saves money and keeps you protected. If you can buy from someone with a 30 day return policy, so you can hear your purchase before final commitment, better still.

 

[random53]

Point taken regarding buying new vs used for tables. I usually love buying hi fi used but if tables are fragile it is probably not worth it. can you elaborate?

Buying vintage and repairing is probably not an option, some of the tables in that link look just amazing but ultimatelly too pricy when thinking about buying new.

the music hall mmf7 looks a lot better than the 5, this could be a good choice for me.

what exactly do I need x-psu power supply for?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by random53 Point taken regarding buying new vs used for tables. I usually love buying hi fi used but if tables are fragile it is probably not worth it. can you elaborate? Buying vintage and repairing is probably not an option, some of the tables in that link look just amazing but ultimatelly too pricy when thinking about buying new. the music hall mmf7 looks a lot better than the 5, this could be a good choice for me. what exactly do I need x-psu power supply for?

A turntable is mechanical. Performance depends a great deal on the bearings, both at the platter and at the arm. Worn or damaged bearings could be very difficult to detect, particularly if you're new at tables, but would impede sonics. Further, the stylii on cartridges are very easy to damage, and in some cartridges are not replaceable (moving coils).

Turntables are also very easy to damage in shipping. I sold an MMF-7 to another Head-Fier, and UPS managed to mangle it despite an extremely careful packing job (UPS insurance paid for the repair).

The X-PSU is an outboard toroidal transformer that Musical Fidelity used to sell for their X-ponents. It provides greater power reserve, which usually means better definition and a better low end response. There are some low-cost alternatives (I believe Ault makes a power supply that will work with MF products) that are reported to work as well. The best of the MF X-ponent phono amps, the X-LP2, used the X-PSU to power two monobloc amp stages.

 

[HD-5000]

Quote:

of the cheapest LPs in good condition are about the price of a cd, but a lot of them are 2 or 3 times as much, and not just older music ones.

No, this is wrong, wrong, wrong! (no offense) There are used LP's that can be found cheaper. LPs are easy to find if you look at the right places. Garage sales, thrift stores, etc. usually have LP's at prices ranging from basically free to $1. Recently I walked of a garage sale with 10 LP's and short $2.