[Ableza]

It is not about audibility. It is about whether the measurements made were accurate.

And either way, it just doesn't matter.

 

[Ableza]

It doesn't matter to you but it does matter to other people.

My point is it shouldn't matter. If the "issues" exist they are inaudible. Therefor, they do not matter to humans. It's like obsessing over the depth of a crater on the moon. It's not going to affect anyone on Earth's life.

 

[ScottFree]

It doesn't matter to you but it does matter to other people.

And this is how we got NwAVGuy

I'm not going to respond any further in this thread because I don't want to fill it with off topic noise. If you want to discuss further PM me or make a separate thread.

Best to have said this a few pages ago.

 

[amirm]

Here is my offering to my Northwest Bifrost reviewer of AV gear with the Japanese Bride avatar. I go to every (almost) Rocky Mountain AF, occasional Axpona Shows, and some local meets or SchiitKit shows. Let's meet up, shake hands, be cordial and air our philosophies either publicly or privately. Your call. I promise I to be well behaved verbally and I don't even care if you really think I am ugly or incompetent. This is all I have to say on this subject. No more posts – I will not be called out. I will let your posts stand on this thread (This thread is mine to moderate) as I really loathe censorship. If you wish to further communicate with me all about how stupid I am, how much my gear sucks, or any communication at all, I would encourage you to PM me, as any real or perceived negative Moffat stuff on this thread in particular will probably bode far less well for you than me.

Commenting on this part first, I certainly accept your kind offer to meet. I go to almost all audio shows just the same. Next one I am signed up for is Axpona and will also go to RMAF. So let's organize offline a time to meet or I will just drop by your suite while there.

I also want to clear up some misunderstandings here about the work I do. I am NOT a reviewer. I am a retired technology executive that loves to keep busy as to keep the mind from rotting. Measuring equipment is one of those projects I do. I normally buy all of my own equipment to review as was the case when I measured your Modi 2. I also accept loaned gear which was the case here. Owners like to know how their products measure objectively and importantly compares with others that I own (I probably have 20 to 30 DACs by now and the list is growing!). I also write technical articles for magazines and for my site.

To the extent my results are not favorable, I expect manufacturers contact me and correct or augment the data. A number have. I don't consider it my responsibility to chase the manufacturer after the fact for reaction. I find it poor form to respond to them elsewhere instead of contacting me.

Being in the industry means I carry no agenda. I know, hard to believe. But I am completely devoid of emotions in these things. It is not personal. It is all about the data. I have had manufactures fight me tooth and nail on my results only to find out there was something they could fix. Others have reached out to me and I worked with them (gratis) to improve their products. Yet another group has offered me product to test because they want to know how it measures, results being good or bad. I would love nothing better than seeing product improvements. Of course, if my measurements are in error, I love to see that too.

So in the interest of mutual respect, I hope you no longer put me in the bucket of people who hate you or your company/products. I go into evaluation of every review of your product as if the history is not there. I measure the gear and let the data speak for itself. Yes, there is commentary especially when I do tear-downs. Some three decades of managing engineering products (both hardware and software) means I do have opinions of what is safe and performant, and what is not. I won't apologize for that. My readers expect me to reflect my experience in such analysis and I provide it. Again, I accept feedback, corrections, questions just the same.

Anyway, thanks again for the olive branch and look forward to having a personal and friendly relationship moving forward. And please call me Amir.

 

[MWSVette]

Please do and I'd recommend that others put me on ignore rather than quote me like you have just done. Of course you aren't reading this though.

If you think the Bifrost MB sounds great then any measurements should be of no concern to you.



A screw that was loose would be a point against a finishing job of an expensive product. It is no reason to believe the unit is defective or tampered with and it's not even an important screw. The person who owns it doesn't want to void the warranty anyway so there was no hardware teardown.



It is not about audibility. It is about whether the measurements made were accurate.

Can you or anyone else here the glitch at -90db? If not then your first point is correct, and it should not matter to you either.

As far as a screw working loose, is that a worthy complaint, really.

If you can not hear it. Then what difference does it make if the graph of that measurement is correct or not.

smh...

 

[HumanFly]

Please do and I'd recommend that others put me on ignore rather than quote me like you have just done. Of course you aren't reading this though.

If you think the Bifrost MB sounds great then any measurements should be of no concern to you.



A screw that was loose would be a point against a finishing job of an expensive product. It is no reason to believe the unit is defective or tampered with and it's not even an important screw. The person who owns it doesn't want to void the warranty anyway so there was no hardware teardown.



It is not about audibility. It is about whether the measurements made were accurate.

I don`t get these reactions. Mike has stated that if you(and/or Japanese bride guy) measured correctly the Bi-frost is broken and he wil repair it for you.

The linearity reported measurement is atrocious and far below the performance level of any 16 bit Bifrost ever sold. This means either the linearity measurement or the Bifrost is broken.

So why act like you have not gotten any awnser to your question why the Bifrost behaved as it did?
Wouldn`t the objective sciency thing to do be : send it in for repairs and measure it again when it returns?
If it does poop out the same numbers you have a very valid point that should be discussed. But if it doesn`t all you are doing now is losing face.
Also giving Mike the chance to fix it will prove that you believe in the correctness of your measurements. So please send the BiFrost in and test it again.
And please drop the results in here because as you can see Mike will not kick you or erase your findings.

BTW
I posted about the bombdropping like I did because I foresaw a massive discussion, not because I think there are things that should not be said.

 

[ToTo Man]

I'm curious as to why everyone seems to be focusing on the -90dB glitch, which has already been discussed ad nauseam has it not? The other measurements make for a more interesting albeit not completely informed discussion, since we do not yet know if Bifrost MB sample that was measured is indeed faulty in some way.

EDIT - @HumanFly beat me to it!

 

[FLTWS]

Alright-y then, lets get back on topic. Cats; friend or foe? No? Okay then; favorite opera singers of 1931? No? How about; Should VU meters be making a comeback? No? .......................

 

[Ableza]

Mike has stated that if you(and/or Japanese bride guy) measured correctly the Bi-frost is broken and he wil repair it for you.

"Baldr
The linearity reported measurement is atrocious and far below the performance level of any 16 bit Bifrost ever sold. This means either the linearity measurement or the Bifrost is broken. "

 

[Byronb]

My Bifrost sounds amazing!

 

[Rtg97229]

Yes and this is why information on the test setup is important. The equipment under test could be broken or the test setup could have a problem. Every time I ask I am told that it has already been discussed but I don't get any further details nor do I find sufficient documentation from the person presenting the data.

 

[Oveja Negra]

This thread has been really interesting during the last pages (at last, since opera bores me to the death).

What I'd like to know -as a Bifrost owner- is...

@amirm After or prior your measurements, did you critically listen to that Bifrost unit? did it sound bad, mediocre or still sounded good? I'm really curious if all the faults you found translate into an audible degradation or not.

Regards.

 

[amirm]

@amirm After or prior your measurements, did you critically listen to that Bifrost unit? did it sound bad, mediocre or still sounded good? I'm really curious if all the faults you found translate into an audible degradation or not.

I have not done any critical listening on it. I did listen to it for an hour to see if there are any drop outs as someone asked and it sounded "fine."

Unfortunately this is a loaner unit and will be going back. If I had more time on it, I could develop a listening test to characterize any audibility issues.

 

[Oveja Negra]

I have not done any critical listening on it. I did listen to it for an hour to see if there are any drop outs as someone asked and it sounded "fine."

Unfortunately this is a loaner unit and will be going back. If I had more time on it, I could develop a listening test to characterize any audibility issues.

Ahh what a bummer, it would be great to see if there's a correlation between the measurements and the perceived "real life" performance of the unit.

Anyways, thanks for taking the time to answer.

 

[MWSVette]

My Bifrost sounds amazing!

Mine too, both of them...