[crazychile]

 
 
Each stack/cluster of speakers reproduced the sound of only one instrument, in essence the Wall was seven separate sound systems stacked together. With each instruments, and the vocals, being reproduced individually, the intermodulation distortion through the amplification stagehand thru the speakers was eliminated. The bass guitar had stacks tall enough to physically reproduce the height of the wave form of the lowest bass note. Along with all this technical info, it is important to recognized that for some of us Dead aficionado's, the band in 1974 was playing tremendous music within the arc of their career evolution.

Just the logistics and cost of transporting / setting up all of this is staggering. Too bad that today performers spend their resources on having a half-dozen Jumbotron displays, when they could actually put a similar level of effort into having decent sound. Forget all the bells and whistles trying to pursue sensory overload, gimme some of that wall of sound!

 

[US Blues]

 

 
 
Each stack/cluster of speakers reproduced the sound of only one instrument, in essence the Wall was seven separate sound systems stacked together. With each instruments, and the vocals, being reproduced individually, the intermodulation distortion through the amplification stagehand thru the speakers was eliminated. The bass guitar had stacks tall enough to physically reproduce the height of the wave form of the lowest bass note. Along with all this technical info, it is important to recognized that for some of us Dead aficionado's, the band in 1974 was playing tremendous music within the arc of their career evolution.

Just the logistics and cost of transporting / setting up all of this is staggering. Too bad that today performers spend their resources on having a half-dozen Jumbotron displays, when they could actually put a similar level of effort into having decent sound. Forget all the bells and whistles trying to pursue sensory overload, gimme some of that wall of sound!

The Wall hit the road during the "oil crises" of the times, the band would play to a full house and lose money. Plus the amount of cocaine required to power the crew through set-up and tear-down had a negative impact. So much so, that the band took a nearly 2 year hiatus.
 
These days there are greats systems from companies like Meyers Sound Labs, John Meyer worked with the Dead before the Wall, and they used his gear on latter-day PA's. The key though is having someone at the board who knows how to mix sound, which is an art in and of itself.

 

[kstuart]

 

 
 
Each stack/cluster of speakers reproduced the sound of only one instrument, in essence the Wall was seven separate sound systems stacked together. With each instruments, and the vocals, being reproduced individually, the intermodulation distortion through the amplification stagehand thru the speakers was eliminated. The bass guitar had stacks tall enough to physically reproduce the height of the wave form of the lowest bass note. Along with all this technical info, it is important to recognized that for some of us Dead aficionado's, the band in 1974 was playing tremendous music within the arc of their career evolution.

Just the logistics and cost of transporting / setting up all of this is staggering. Too bad that today performers spend their resources on having a half-dozen Jumbotron displays, when they could actually put a similar level of effort into having decent sound. Forget all the bells and whistles trying to pursue sensory overload, gimme some of that wall of sound!

As mentioned, the one musician I've found that is doing a similar level of audio today (of course, there may be others I am unaware of) is Lorin Ashton (aka "Bassnectar").
 

 These days there are greats systems from companies like Meyers Sound Labs, John Meyer worked with the Dead before the Wall, and they used his gear on latter-day PA's.

 
" Human hearing spends a range of about 20 Hertz (Hz) to 20,000 Hz. Lorin and his acoustic team have chosen to pair with sound pioneer and genius Meyer Sound. These speakers cover a range wider than nearly any other speaker system and are able to do so with unbelievable clarity and control. "
 

 

 

[zive]

Sounds like a rather daunting design challenge, though from the depth of your description I have no doubt that you're up to the task.
 
That said, while I would be curious to try such an amp if you ever produced one, I would be more likely to upgrade my Mani to a reference-class solid state phono preamp from you guys that takes all of the accuracy of the Mani and adds more gain options for fine-tuning cartridge matching. Conceivably this would need a larger form factor, a-la Bifrost/Asgar2/Lyr size. 
 
Whatever you decide I'm excited to see what comes next because the Mani, at its rock-bottom price point has been a revelation in value. Keep up the great work!

 

[Mottom]

Considering the Mani already uses a linear power supply...I'm curious how this person hooked his up without serious modifications to their Mani?

Sorry, 
 
I guess I'm still too new to have understood that. I went back to the Schiit page and pulled the specs on the Mani's power supply and only saw:
 
Power Supply: “wall wart” style 16VAC transformer, regulated +/- 5V rails
 
I did not realize that was the same as a linear supply.
 
I then went back to find the gent in the thread that ordered a custom supply. After checking, it looks like he said "filtered" and my brain translated as "linear:" 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737555/schiit-mani/45#post_12240605.
 
I've got to read more carefully.

 

[DougD]

 
The net result is that such a proposed design will be 4 to 5 times the price of a Mani.
 
Given the above info, what say you all?

 
I will be buying a Mani. I expect to buy an ADC when I find one I like. (More than the $28 jobbie I bought as a stopgap.) 
 
Personally, I can't see that I'd ever buy a tube phono amp, at some x-multiple of the price of the Mani. The Mani is too good, I don't understand why tubes should be better than SS for this application, and vinyl just isn't a significant part of my "music strategy." (I have 600 albums I literally have not listened to in 20 years. Getting to the point I can listen to them again is my goal ... once each, while ripping. Can't see myself becoming a vinylophile.)
 
HTH, thanks for asking. 

 

[bigro]

I generally Hate going into Clubs/shows etc because the everything is driven to the point of clipping and distortion. But When You Find a venue where the sound guys know their Schiit it can really be enjoyable. I can sit their for hours just taking it in. It bothers me so much so I spent the Night before my wedding with my buddy setting up and tweaking the audio gear in the reception venue re aliging all of their speakers so the dance floor was the sweet spot instead of.. well there was none. All so I was not put off by the sound at my own wedding. HA Sick Yep. Those who know me expected nothing less. We built a good reputation for our parties when we were in school, we just did it for fun but the side effect was people noticed.   I can only imagine the massive undertaking it is for venues that large or in between a bunch of rocks outdoors to get sound right. Let along coordinating all of those people.

 

[Baldr]

  Sorry, 
 
I guess I'm still too new to have understood that. I went back to the Schiit page and pulled the specs on the Mani's power supply and only saw:
 
Power Supply: “wall wart” style 16VAC transformer, regulated +/- 5V rails
 
I did not realize that was the same as a linear supply.
 
I then went back to find the gent in the thread that ordered a custom supply. After checking, it looks like he said "filtered" and my brain translated as "linear:" 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737555/schiit-mani/45#post_12240605.
 
I've got to read more carefully.

The exact nomenclature notwithstanding, is that the Mani/Modi/Magni sized products are not capable of upgradability.  The larger DACs are indeed so, but the upgrade possibilities were carefully considered in the design, with the segmentation of the circuit into daughter boards.  There is no room for such boards in the small Mani/Modi/Magni chassis - the only upgrade possible is an entirely new board.  The new "power supply" that I have seen offered for the Mani is indeed a transformer only.  It would be convenient in a marketing sense, I suppose to offer a larger transformer in a Mani sized box to make a stackable dual chassis Mani - cute!  The problem is that the transformer box would radiate excessive hum into the Mani proper, rendering the cute stack unlistenable.  

 

[Thad-E-Ginathom]

 
... ... ... Forget all the bells and whistles trying to pursue sensory overload, gimme some of that wall of sound!

 
There was plenty of sensory overload around back in the day.

 
 
And that, too, combined with substances that enhanced the senses, mixed them all together, and served them all up to the conciousness in completely different ways. Didn't you just love the taste of that last song?

 

[deckeda]

   
Given the above info, what say you all?

 
I don't understand why you've been asked to use tubes for tubes' sake, which is where my understanding here is. To them I'd ask, "Why not a $300 or $500 or $800 solid state phono pre instead?" ... because as you say, what they're asking for is a more expensive box they assume will sound better. As a listener my goals are sound and quiet backgrounds; I don't care how you get there. And if much of the extra cash is mainly aimed at overcoming tube problems even before it can sound better than Mani then I don't see the point, do you?
 
Apart from that I have only questions and pontifications you don't probably, really want to hear, given Mani's feature set. Such as:
 
1) MM carts live mostly in the sub $1,000 market, to the extent "most" low output MC carts do not, at least not a ton of truly special ones. And I say that knowing full well many never care to venture beyond DL103 (and variants) or A-T's AT33 series. But there are so many good MM carts out there that the entire product class is worthy of ... (here it comes, right?) ... better MM-only phono preamps.
 
2) I thought #1 would make perfect sense to a company that has sold DACs with only one type of input, for example: specialize on what makes sense and what makes you different. So I'm sorry, offering an inexpensive phono pre that helps the DL103 owner unwilling to invest in a headamp or a pair of Cinemags is OK but "as a priority" it doesn't jibe here. I view inexpensive phono pre's that cater to low output MC carts kinda like some view DAC/amp combos.
 
Of course, the dongle market Fulla swims in does in fact dovetail with Mani's feature set of "just get it done, because it's crazy useful" but here's the deal: I say all of the above because I think it would be educationally instructive (read: beneficial) to consider offering a phono pre that retailed for about 3-4 times Mani's price, only worked with MM and let buyers realize there's a reason why their 2M Black or whatever can rock better when feeding an amp that doesn't try to be all things to all carts. Sacrifice some likes for some love. Somebody told me that's a good spot to be in.

 

[taxiq]

Will yggy ever get a separated power supply unit?

 

[Ableza]

   
 
Given the above info, what say you all?

Not a product Id buy but I'm sure there are a few hundred vinyl users who would try it.

 

[Mr Rick]

 
 
Given the above info, what say you all?

 
I'm sure you would have a blast designing / building it. But I'm not sure it fits the Schiit 'value philosophy'.  Now, if you started a "Lexus" line.............

 

[rtaylor76]

 
Of course, the dongle market Fulla swims in does in fact dovetail with Mani's feature set of "just get it done, because it's crazy useful" but here's the deal: I say all of the above because I think it would be educationally instructive (read: beneficial) to consider offering a phono pre that retailed for about 3-4 times Mani's price, only worked with MM and let buyers realize there's a reason why their 2M Black or whatever can rock better when feeding an amp that doesn't try to be all things to all carts. Sacrifice some likes for some love. Somebody told me that's a good spot to be in.

 
I think this is what Mike is trying to say - it would be for MM only (or high output MCs) and still cost 4-5 times as much as the Mani. And thus therefore, is it worth building a limiting product for 4 to 5 times the price, just for tubes? 
 
 - no impedance matching (47k only)
 - no high output (MM only and maybe those Denon DL-110s or DL-120s)
 - no tube rolling (6DJ8/6922/7308 only)
 - 4 to 5 times cost of Mani ($516 - $645 USD)
 
I think Mike and Jason would love for such a product to be 3 to 4 times the price, but the power supply/filtering and chassis I think is the most limiting. Clean power is a must for tube preamps (well...any tube amp), and that comes at a price.

 

[Eee Pee]

I own a Mani. Like it. I put my Soundsmith phono on the shelf.

Only thing I see worth doing is a super duper version. And in a chassis to match the Mjolnir I have. Tubes at that point of amplification don't make sense to me.
Using an Audio Technica 440 currently.