He's not likely to talk about sound on his forum because his forum is all about measurements. I'm not going to throw him off a bridge just yet, however, he would never have made a diplomat, and god help anyone who had to work for him.
When I found his "home," I fully expected to see some guy with a $60 radioshack USB scope ragging on Schiit, but he did post a writeup of his test equipment. He's far better than that.
I really wanted to see him and Baldr hash it out, but he's so wound up about being banned from this thread (by Mike, he insists) that he's now virtually grinding his teeth. Which is a shame. A real discussion would have been a learning experience for me, and certainly others.
I don't see why he needs to pursue it any further. It doesn't look like Schiit is interested in conversing with him. I also don't think Schiit has any obligation to do so. Though it may be in their best interest to post refutations of his measurements...but that's completely up to Schitt.
I can see their side too. If they are competent they have done their own measurements in the design and if they see somebody accusing them of badly mistating their specs, they know what they've got. They have no reason to waste time.
However it puts them in a tough position because his measurements ARE out there and they aren't agreeing with the specs (I think). So by not posting their own measurements they put themselves at the mercy of public opinion.
It is.
Mike has explained very publicly and very often this DAC cannot be measured like any other because (insert reason I don't remember) it's build f**cks up all results.
Exactly! And he as also said that he doesn't respond to criticisms or reviews. For his silence after this run of critical reviews he should be accorded the Nobel Peace Prize. I'd be flaming were I him. But then again I'm not as I wouldn't know what to do with an electron if I found one.
(This is the only comment I'll write about this topic)
Anybody with a fat-enough wallet can buy a stack of fancy measurement gear. But do they really know how to use it, how to interpret the results, and most of all, are they aware of and working hard to overcome their biases? In my line of work we have to do complex measurements and statistical analyses (not of audio gear), and even real pros with long professional track records make mistakes, which are discovered and fixed through careful peer review. Some proposed conclusions are debated for years by experts. I also know a bit about the subtlety of the human auditory system, and how canonical measurements miss some of that subtlety. The way "measurements" are bandied around in these discussions by "experts" with dubious credentials and track records is the total opposite of professional, reliable analysis. You would learn nothing -- or worse than nothing -- from the discussion you were hoping for here, any more than you'd learn about basketball from a discussion between me and Stephen Curry.
It is.
Mike has explained very publicly and very often this DAC cannot be measured like any other because (insert reason I don't remember) it's build f**cks up all results.
Exactly! And he as also said that he doesn't respond to criticisms or reviews. For his silence after this run of critical reviews he should be accorded the Nobel Peace Prize. I'd be flaming were I him. But then again I'm not as I wouldn't know what to do with an electron if I found one.
I'll go looking but can you point me to the detail of what Mike said?
I find it telling that JA from Stereophile measured up the Yggdrasil and even though he found some quirks, he sure didn't give it a schiit-canning. From a guy who (after publishing the test results) then referred to the DAC as "obsolete", comes across to me as being a more reliable reference source.
I've had experience with in-house vs third party lab testing (not audio) and in my field, there are recognised testing agencies who provide competent personnel with competent and calibrated equipment, working to recognised standards. For this sort of quality work, which includes a signed off test certificate, a price has to be paid.
The facts, as best as I can make out, is that this sort of testing standard and rigour is simply not on offer for audio gear (regardless of manufacturer) (... and if it is I haven't stumbled across an example). It's great that there are sources out there offering to do their best for "free" but their reliability is inherently limited for the reasons mentioned above.
So where does that leave my thinking? I can point to three test reports for the Yggdrasil. Two are in reasonable agreement (JA and atomicbob) giving the DAC a thumbs up with one conflicting report. So applying methodology that I'm used to, I'll apply two out of three voting.
I used to contribute also over at ASR but stopped a few months ago. It seems like the same few guys contributing showing how wonderful they all are and clearly showing biases on a few topics. Not worth my time. While I value measurements, to dis products you claim to measure and then say there is no need to even listen to the unit makes no sense to me at all. And yes, I an an Yggy owner. Best DAC I have listened to and I have heard quite a few.
This makes me even more uneasy about this whole thing. I kind of hoped that this individual was an independent audio enthusiast who was simply passionate about measuring DACs and headphone amps, with the ultimate goal of finding imperfections to help manufacturers improve. The fact that it appears to be a very seasoned and high-profile professional with many ties to this industry makes this whole business quite uncomfortable to follow. The sheer degree and type of negativity in his language when talking about other companies' products and the level of professional disrespect is surprising. I am afraid that if there was any credibility to these alternative measurements, it is gone now in my eyes, taking into the account the professional background of this gentleman. I think we have been the victims of someone who is using their experience and knowledge to manipulate information with the goal of damaging another company's reputation.
I think you may be jumping to conclusions. He has given several negative reviews (i.e. non-recommendations) on plenty of other DACs that measured poorly. None of those other companies were singled out or the public manipulated by the interpretation of their performance metrics. The Schiit reviews have garnered a considerable amount of attention because a) Schiit is a high-profile company in the enthusiast audio industry at the moment and many, many people (including myself) have bought their products and b) they are measuring poorly and outside of the manufacturers stated specifications, by ASR's system and methods. The buzz was not generated by ASR or Schiit, but by us consumers and the public asked both ASR and Schiit for an explanation, which led to the interactions held here on Head-Fi between them. I hope that some common ground can be met between the two, if the measurements are inaccurate, Schiit can dispel the notion that their products are poorly designed by providing their own, otherwise this unrest is going to continue.
I really wanted to see him and Baldr hash it out, but he's so wound up about being banned from this thread (by Mike, he insists) that he's now virtually grinding his teeth. Which is a shame. A real discussion would have been a learning experience for me, and certainly others.
Discussions are always good...some better than others. But I agree, it's a shame that the dialogue stopped...would've been interesting and I feel I might have learned something as well.
Agreed...I am definitely in this camp as well but enjoy reading about the differences of opinions regarding equipment design, etc.
That said, to further your point, I'm more than fine with the level of hardware that I have and would rather invest in another set of cans than higher end hardware. TBH, I would have much rather been able to purchase the Mimby than the Bimby...timing is everything!
To me, the ROI is significantly higher having multiple transducers with different sound signatures.
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Yaggy, indeed...
