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What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)

Discussion in 'Mike Moffat (Baldr)' started by baldr, Oct 13, 2015.
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  1. Baldr
    All true, or mostly true in a universe where (i.e. DIY) the following conditions prevail:
    All shielding grounds, cartridge body shielding grounds, and turntable system grounds are isolated from or disconnected from right and left cart output grounds.  Disconnecting too many grounds can make phono systems hum.
    No common ground wiring exists between channels, such as Deccas, some Grados, and many other variable relectance types.
    Since cartridge windings are not intended to be hooked up balanced, there is no true center tap where the impedance is quartered.  Therefore, a less optimal phantom ground would have to be derived with resistors.
    Such an application could be properly implemented with a transformer, but as far as I know, none exist.  The difficulty would be to make such a device universal.
    It is possible to half-ass/float it with cables; I am just not about half-ass.
    Until cartridges have balanced, center-tapped, output coils, count me balancing at the first circuit stage where I can tolerate 6db more noise.
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    thebmc and sam6550a like this.
  2. bigro
    I knew The DAC Module on the Jotunheim was Balanced, I did not realize the phono Stage was balanced. With all the people dreaming that Schiit could fit an MB DAC in the Chassis of the Jotunheim or complaining that you did not fit one in, unfortunately it seems some of the very interesting features have been lost.  I did a quick  look at Some of the Popular Turntable Manufacturers and did not see any balanced outputs even on flagship TT's. I Generally Play in the High Value per Dollar arena so I never paid attention to those. If they are out there it seems like they are rare. This is Just a Thought but If the size, form factor and all of the other things you must consider allow, would it be feasible to make this experimental Phono stage with SE outputs as standard and possibly an add on Phono Balanced Output Module In a Similar Fashion as Jotunheim Modules? 
    Your Preference of MM Carts is Interesting as the rest of the world touts MC as the way to go.  What are your preferences for MM Carts?
  3. watchnerd
    Who said the phono stage in the Jot was balanced?
  4. bigro
    Look at the Label in the Top Left.. Balanced out, not in.
  5. bigro
    Although the Description on Schiits website says
    "This balanced DAC adds a MM phono input to your phono-less Jotunheim. It uses a passive RIAA network and high-quality, ultra-low-noise gain stages for excellent performance. "
    I am Guessing DAC should be Replaced with Module or something of the sort.
    Maybe Mike Can Clarify. But it is kind of my point. if it is in fact a Balanced output Phono Stage, who knew? And Beyond that a pretty kick ass option if you ask me that seemed to get lost in the noise.
  6. watchnerd
    Oh, you mean the phono stage output gets converted from SE -> balanced.
    I wouldn't call that a fully balanced phono stage, which to me implies balanced (XLR) inputs.
  7. bigro
    Right. Balanced Out. If Cartridges is as Mike stated Inherently SE, unless there is some electronics built into the TT what other ways can you make an SE source (like a Cartridge)  truly Balanced?  Based on Mike's Last post it seems some of the methods mentioned outside of the phono stage taking the SE input and outputting balanced seem to be a sub par /Half assed solution from an Engineers Standpoint.  I am not Arguing one way or the other. All of the TT's I have used admittedly are on the low to mid end of the spectrum and have been all SE. If you do know of companies that make balanced Turntables can you post them? I would like to do some research.
  8. watchnerd
    If you look elsewhere, many vinyl forums are of the opposite opinion: that cartridges are inherently balanced.
  9. watchnerd
    Pro-Ject offers balanced XLR cabling on their mid- to upper-end models, as well as XLR input phono stages.
  10. oryan_dunn
    So, how does the Jot Phono amp compare to the Mani?  Is it a similar design?
  11. sam6550a

    The missing ingredient, which was identified by Baldr, is that the phono cartridge coils do NOT provide a center tap to ground, which a truly balanced configuration demands. That is why he eschews work around configurations.
    Argo Duck likes this.
  12. bigro

    Understood. I was looking into the Pro-jects and it seems they have a 5 Pin Din Connector on their higher end models which can have a Balanced Cable or SE cable attached to it. I may be Missing something and I am not trying to be argumentative here but is that not similar to getting RCA to XLR cables and hooking it up to My Modi 2 Uber?  Still Inherently SE but with XLR's on the other end.
  13. bosiemoncrieff
    What would happen if you plugged Mani into Vidar?
  14. RCBinTN
    OMGoodness...is that in your home?  What an awesome display!!
    I think it's interesting that many posters on this thread try to help Mike design his next products.  Mike - are you guys over at Schiit Audio hiring at the moment?  LOL.
  15. jimmers
    If you had turntable and speakers connected and all was powered up and you tried playing a record ... most likely would smoke your speakers. You need to have a preamp/attenuator between Mani and Vidar.
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