[orifiel]

IMO westone has the most comfortable universal IEMs in the market today, i try several IEMs and even the 64 audio IEMs with Apex are less comfortable and less suitable for long listening sesions.
I have the U4SE and despite the apex module these produce ear fatigue in long sessions....
With my W80s the ear fatigue is reduced to nothing in the longest listening sessions.
(I will not compare the sound quality of both IEMs, but despite the price gap, these U4 are surprisingly very good, so good are they, I'm seriously thinking about buying the U18)

 

[twister6]

IMO westone has the most comfortable universal IEMs in the market today, i try several IEMs and even the 64 audio IEMs with Apex are less comfortable and less suitable for long listening sesions.
I have the U4SE and despite the apex module these produce ear fatigue in long sessions....
With my W80s the ear fatigue is reduced to nothing in the longest listening sessions.
(I will not compare the sound quality of both IEMs, but despite the price gap, these U4 are surprisingly very good, so good are they, I'm seriously thinking about buying the U18)

Are you talking about ear fatigue due to sound or due to fit? Of course, sound is a matter of a personal preference, I enjoy both W80 and U4-SE (great price/performance ratio if you want to step into apex tech), and I love U18 as well. In terms of comfort, the ergonomics of W80 shell design is bar none, and out of everything I tested - these are the smallest 8xBA driver iems I came across. I mean, they are comfortable enough to wear even when you go to sleep with your ear on a pillow. You can't get that with 64 Audio shells. But in my opinion, ear fatigue is always a combination of both, the fit and the sound. You can have a comfortable fit, but if IEMs are too bassy or too shrill and not your cup of tea, forget about long listening session

 

[orifiel]

Are you talking about ear fatigue due to sound or due to fit? Of course, sound is a matter of a personal preference, I enjoy both W80 and U4-SE (great price/performance ratio if you want to step into apex tech), and I love U18 as well. In terms of comfort, the ergonomics of W80 shell design is bar none, and out of everything I tested - these are the smallest 8xBA driver iems I came across. I mean, they are comfortable enough to wear even when you go to sleep with your ear on a pillow. You can't get that with 64 Audio shells. But in my opinion, ear fatigue is always a combination of both, the fit and the sound. You can have a comfortable fit, but if IEMs are too bassy or too shrill and not your cup of tea, forget about long listening session

To me, the shell of my U4s are really comfortable, better than shure SE846 and JH audio for example, it’s a matter of sound signature i think, the relaxed sound sig of the Westones is the best for long listening sessions, maybe this sound sig it’s not my cup of tea anymore but i love it anyway and I recognize that is the best for long sessions...
And in terms of fit comfort the absolute champions are the W60s and in the second place are the W80s...
All of this IMO of course
By the way, after a long searching of cables the winners are the ES/UM-PRO replacement cable (for the more neutral sig) and the Balanced ALO8 (the annoying sibilance dissapear...maybe for my brain-in)

 

[twister6]

To me, the shell of my U4s are really comfortable, better than shure SE846 and JH audio for example, it’s a matter of sound signature i think, the relaxed sound sig of the Westones is the best for long listening sessions, maybe this sound sig it’s not my cup of tea anymore but i love it anyway and I recognize that is the best for long sessions...
And in terms of fit comfort the absolute champions are the W60s and in the second place are the W80s...
All of this IMO of course
By the way, after a long searching of cables the winners are the ES/UM-PRO replacement cable (for the more neutral sig) and the Balanced ALO8 (the annoying sibilance dissapear...maybe for my brain-in)

What do you mean, ES/UM Pro replacement cable, the original Westone epic cable?

Also curious, because someone else mentioned that before, you find a difference in W60 vs W80 fit? To me they are nearly identical, but someone mentioned the nozzle angle is slightly different. W60 on the left, W80 on the right:

 

[orifiel]

What do you mean, ES/UM Pro replacement cable, the original Westone epic cable?

Also curious, because someone else mentioned that before, you find a difference in W60 vs W80 fit? To me they are nearly identical, but someone mentioned the nozzle angle is slightly different. W60 on the left, W80 on the right:

Yes it’s the Epic cable with other name in the westone page, but it’s the same...maybe improved the connector fit over the old ones...
Yes i found the difference in fit between W60 and W80, W60s are a little bit more rounded or oval shaped near to the noozle and a bit thinner but only a bit, and like you said the angle of the noozle is a bit different.
Then, to me, the fit is better with the W60s (ok, no much better, but better), i noticed this because with the W80 i need to find the best tips, but with the W60 i keep the black startips without problems

Regards

 

[twister6]

I mentioned before about the new Meeaudio balanced cable I'm testing now. Since it comes with mmcx connectors, naturally I wanted to try it with Westone IEMs, specifically W80.

I do like ALO Ref8 hybrid cable included with W80, but as I mentioned before it has its own shortcomings, such as microphonics, memory effect due to stiffness, memory wire (which I removed), and 3.5mm single ended termination. This Meeaudio cable, http://www.meeaudio.com/CMB-BAL-SET, is SPC (silver plated copper) and has 2.5mm TRRS balanced straight connector termination. But what's cool about it, this cable comes with a set of small L-shaped adapters to go from 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRRS balanced (HifiMan wiring) or to 3.5mm TRS single end (your regular plug), and the new 4.4mm TRRRS Pentaconn balanced connector (Sony and DX200 amp4). There is no memory effect, cable is soft/pliable, no memory wire, and you can connect it with any/every DAP. The adapter mating is very secure, and when attached - feels solid. The housing of adapters is a solid sturdy plastic mold with a metal decorative shell on top.

Regaring W80, I was actually surprised to find when going from Ref8 to MEE Bal - I hear a wider soundstage, while staging depth remains the same. Also, very similar low end extension, goes deep down to a rumbling sub-bass and a noticeable mid-bass impact, but with MEE cable I hear a little shorter decay which gives bass more control with less spillage into lower mids. Mids and treble are very similar, detailed, smooth, natural. Definitely worth consideration.

 

[Imusicman]

The Meeaudio cable looks like a bit off bargain which is fairly rare these days I think, esp if it's on a similar level to the Alo Ref8 which btw I think is great.

Im having the Alo Ref8 re-terminated to 4.4 in the next few weeks(after my hols) so I can go balanced with 1Z. With this in mind I tried the standard black cable that came in the package along with the Alo Ref8. OMG all I can say is it's going to be a rough few weeks until my Alo cable returns. It's absolutely true what twister6 says in his review of the W80. It's hard to go back to any other cable once you've heard the W80/Alo Ref8 combination.

For anyone who doubts that cables can make a difference I would urge them to try something like this. Out of my 1Z the difference was not subtle. With my iPhone it was a little more subtle but still noticable.

 

[twister6]

The Meeaudio cable looks like a bit off bargain which is fairly rare these days I think, esp if it's on a similar level to the Alo Ref8 which btw I think is great.

Im having the Alo Ref8 re-terminated to 4.4 in the next few weeks(after my hols) so I can go balanced with 1Z. With this in mind I tried the standard black cable that came in the package along with the Alo Ref8. OMG all I can say is it's going to be a rough few weeks until my Alo cable returns. It's absolutely true what twister6 says in his review of the W80. It's hard to go back to any other cable once you've heard the W80/Alo Ref8 combination.

For anyone who doubts that cables can make a difference I would urge them to try something like this. Out of my 1Z the difference was not subtle. With my iPhone it was a little more subtle but still noticable.

... and then you switch to 1Z balanced and be pleasantly surprised, again

 

[gilency]

The Meeaudio cable looks like a bit off bargain which is fairly rare these days I think, esp if it's on a similar level to the Alo Ref8 which btw I think is great.

Im having the Alo Ref8 re-terminated to 4.4 in the next few weeks(after my hols) so I can go balanced with 1Z. With this in mind I tried the standard black cable that came in the package along with the Alo Ref8. OMG all I can say is it's going to be a rough few weeks until my Alo cable returns. It's absolutely true what twister6 says in his review of the W80. It's hard to go back to any other cable once you've heard the W80/Alo Ref8 combination.

For anyone who doubts that cables can make a difference I would urge them to try something like this. Out of my 1Z the difference was not subtle. With my iPhone it was a little more subtle but still noticable.

They don't. There is no scientific basis for it. And even if there were, human ears could not detect it.
The placebo effect on the other hand is well documented.
And because of it, people will continue to swear there is a difference.
And cable makes will continue to be sold........

 

[Imusicman]

They don't. There is no scientific basis for it. And even if there were, human ears could not detect it.
The placebo effect on the other hand is well documented.
And because of it, people will continue to swear there is a difference.
And cable makes will continue to be sold........

If someone does not here differences in this hobby then I guess that are lucky or unlucky, depending on your viewpoint as they could save themselves a small fortune.
Luckily for me I do hear differences, even the subtle ones.

Happy listening

 

[mcemce13]

If someone does not here differences in this hobby then I guess that are lucky or unlucky, depending on your viewpoint as they could save themselves a small fortune.
Luckily for me I do hear differences, even the subtle ones.

Happy listening

Agreed, especially in the case of the W80 between the Ref8 vs black standard cable.

 

[javahut]

They don't. There is no scientific basis for it. And even if there were, human ears could not detect it.
The placebo effect on the other hand is well documented.
And because of it, people will continue to swear there is a difference.
And cable makes will continue to be sold........

There is, without a doubt, a HUGE difference in cables. I had to send a Black Dragon back to Moon Audio because the mid-bass was just so overwhelming and the sparkle of the top end so muted... and I'm normally a basshead. I traded the Black Dragon back to them for the Silver Dragon, which I found much more acceptable. There was no need to even compare side by side, there was that much difference. The difference is not small... via IEMs and a quality source/DAC/amp. And the difference between a Black Dragon vs. a Double Helix pure silver cable is even bigger.

If you've actually tried different quality cable types on a good system and can't hear it... then that's great for your pocket book. But I suspect you've never actually heard the difference for yourself. I, too, once doubted the difference... but that was before I tried them for myself. Yes, you can overcome some of it by EQ. But introducing EQ into a quality system has other drawbacks. When you're wanting to hear the source as close to a standard as possible, you won't want to use EQ much, and optimally not at all... and cables can make a HUGE difference in fine tuning a playback/monitoring system. Maybe not always. But the right changes can make a substantial difference in what you're hearing.

 

[twister6]

Pillow fight.. . I mean, cable discussion!!!

As I usually write in my cable review preamble, "The most obvious change even disbelievers can agree on is based on principals of physics where higher purity material will yield a smaller resistivity, better conductivity, fewer losses, and corresponding boost in signal level. Various metals have different properties. There is no magic behind it and you’ll get an instant benefit of a slightly boosted output, improving the efficiency of your headphones/earphones, something that could be measured. Also, doubling the number of conductors will lower the overall resistance of the cable... What makes sense to me is that I look at the wire as a material with physical properties of resistivity, conductivity, level of purity, etc, which acts as a filter between your source and headphones. Variations of these physical properties will affect the conductivity of electric signal and will result in a sound change, from a subtle to a more noticeable level."

I'm all for a civilized discussion, even when we agree to disagree, but as long as it's based on the actual personal experience of trying different cables, mentioning which one you compared against each other, what source did you use and corresponding IEMs (including output impedance of the source, and impedance and sensitivity of IEMs), and making sure everything was volume matched, etc. But when people throw a blanket statement based on reading some article or someone else rant, which btw often lead to the same source of one veteran sound engineer who held a debunking session saying different wires make no difference (I forgot the name of the guy, but he is being quoted quite often) - that discussion usually ends up nowhere...

Both ALO/Campfire Audio and Effect Audio attend almost every CanJam show, including upcoming CanJam NYC. I think it's a great opportunity to check it out, try different cables, see if you hear or don't the difference. There is no right or wrong answer to this, the same way how even with a stock cable (Epic) people hear and describe sound different with the same IEMs.

 

[Zeeke]

Pillow fight.. . I mean, cable discussion!!!

Both ALO/Campfire Audio and Effect Audio attend almost every CanJam show, including upcoming CanJam NYC. I think it's a great opportunity to check it out, try different cables, see if you hear or don't the difference. There is no right or wrong answer to this, the same way how even with a stock cable (Epic) people hear and describe sound different with the same IEMs.

I went to RMAF just to test this for myself. And now I am a firm believer that everyone hears things differently. No one person is perfect and can state something as fact. I spent about 10 hours in canjam listening to every IEM I could and also testing some cables. To make a blanket statement that saying anything one way or the other on hearing is just not possible in my opinion. Even on the IEM everyone can hear it differently and like or dislike that IEM. Same with the cable. Go test for yourself, and then state your "opinion", but you can never call it fact.

 

[twister6]

I went to RMAF just to test this for myself. And now I am a firm believer that everyone hears things differently. No one person is perfect and can state something as fact. I spent about 10 hours in canjam listening to every IEM I could and also testing some cables. To make a blanket statement that saying anything one way or the other on hearing is just not possible in my opinion. Even on the IEM everyone can hear it differently and like or dislike that IEM. Same with the cable. Go test for yourself, and then state your "opinion", but you can never call it fact.

Exactly, bud. Curious, which cables you tried? The problem, at these shows, high end cables are all 2pin connectorized, not much help if you want to try it with Westone. But at least you can try different Campfire Audio/ALO cables, I'm sure Ken brings some to the show.