[Pete7]

I've tried both the white 680 ohm resistance filters and without filters at all, and neither sound as good as the stock brown 1000 ohm filters. The white filters do sound close to the stock, although the upper mids sound more emphasized and bass sounds tighter with less emphasis. With no filter, I heard more balance with all the frequencies (sometimes it sounded as if frequencies were bleeding into each other: lower/upper minds and treble) but less dynamics as if the life was sucked out. Treble was more splashy and a tendency towards sibilance.
I have an Ibasso CB12 cable that cost a total of $109 that I really think brings the best out of the UM 50 Pro. It's a copper/ silver plated copper-copper weave cable. It sounds to me like it adds some extension both ways without sacrificing the gorgeous mids. I would have loved to have sprung for the $200 CB13 which is silver/copper, but it's just too much for me to spend on a cable.
And if you are using foam tips, they do tend to muffle treble in my experience.
Obviously, I threw my caution from my previous post to the wind and removed the filters with the tool from Aliexpress problem-free. It was much easier than past experience. It just proved to be a waste of time. Removing them altogether or replacing with the white altered the tonal balance a little bit, but in each case it sounded "off" to me.

 

[Blackeyeliner]

Sorry if I asked you this before, just loosing track of all Westone replies I post on head-fi/FB/email But are you using foam or silicone eartips? Foam will absorb some high frequencies. Also, go down one eartip size smaller. Loosening up the seal with balance out the sound where bass will get lower, giving upper mids/treble more room to breath Also, try some silver-plated cables, you can sharpen the sound a bit this way.

Fully understood. I am using silicone eartips, largest ones. Sadly, even red (next in line smaller) are nor sealing enough, but I will try them on anyway just to understand if that would work. But seems like it's something I shouldn't do, artificially sacrificing seal to alter frequency response. Maybe I should just reserve to listening those on my ADI-2 with DSP EQ and that's it. That DSP is nuts, by the way. Just nuts.

 

[Blackeyeliner]

I've tried both the white 680 ohm resistance filters and without filters at all, and neither sound as good as the stock brown 1000 ohm filters. The white filters do sound close to the stock, although the upper mids sound more emphasized and bass sounds tighter with less emphasis. With no filter, I heard more balance with all the frequencies (sometimes it sounded as if frequencies were bleeding into each other: lower/upper minds and treble) but less dynamics as if the life was sucked out. Treble was more splashy and a tendency towards sibilance.
I have an Ibasso CB12 cable that cost a total of $109 that I really think brings the best out of the UM 50 Pro. It's a copper/ silver plated copper-copper weave cable. It sounds to me like it adds some extension both ways without sacrificing the gorgeous mids. I would have loved to have sprung for the $200 CB13 which is silver/copper, but it's just too much for me to spend on a cable.
And if you are using foam tips, they do tend to muffle treble in my experience.
Obviously, I threw my caution from my previous post to the wind and removed the filters with the tool from Aliexpress problem-free. It was much easier than past experience. It just proved to be a waste of time. Removing them altogether or replacing with the white altered the tonal balance a little bit, but in each case it sounded "off" to me.

Looks like you own both W30 and UM Pro 50 - do you hear that drastic difference in high frequency output? I mean, for me the difference is night and day, like someone turned "Hi" pot on the amp all the way down all the times on UM Pro 50, it's so hard to not hear this. I am also contemplating finding someone who would verify if I'm not insane by listening to my W60 and UM Pro 50, because seems like I am losing my mind. That can't be okay.

 

[Pete7]

Looks like you own both W30 and UM Pro 50 - do you hear that drastic difference in high frequency output? I mean, for me the difference is night and day, like someone turned "Hi" pot on the amp all the way down all the times on UM Pro 50, it's so hard to not hear this. I am also contemplating finding someone who would verify if I'm not insane by listening to my W60 and UM Pro 50, because seems like I am losing my mind. That can't be okay.

The W30 has more of a V-shaped sound Sig, and yes- the highs are a little more extended than the UM50 Pro, but not drastically so. The mids of the W30 are not as lush either, giving the treble more emphasis. Cymbals with the W30 can sound more tinny as a result.
I don't think you are insane. We all hear things differently. I'm doing most of my listening with a Cayin N5iiS DAP. I have noticed that both the UM50 Pro and W30 sound smoother, more rounded out of my Opus 1. The N5iiS sounds more analytical and benefits the UM50 Pro, but the W30 sounds better with the Opus 1.

 

[megabigeye]

Hey, @Blackeyeliner,
I don't think you're crazy either. My first impression of the UM Pro 50 was also that it's pretty dark. For me, fortunately, it changed when I swapped tips, but I was just about to send them back because I just didn't like the sound. I assume that it's not the fit you're getting since you're not having the same problem with the W60.

If you check out Crinacle's measurements for both the UM Pro 50 and the W60 (that post is from 2016, so I assume that they're all the older models being measured), you can see that compared to the W60, at ~11kHz the UM Pro 50 is down about 6dB. At ~11kHz, the W60 is down only about 1.5dB relative to 1kHz, and down about 6dB relative to 500Hz. At the same frequency, it looks like the UM Pro 50 is down about 8dB relative to 1kHz, and down almost 12dB relative to 500Hz! To me that looks like a pretty dark earphone!

Somebody, please correct me if I'm not reading those measurements right.

Those measurements just about confirm the way I'm hearing the UM Pro 50, though to my ear they still have a nice sparkle to the top end.

EDIT: sorry! I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to link to that particular forum!

 

[twister6]

Hey, @Blackeyeliner,
I don't think you're crazy either. My first impression of the UM Pro 50 was also that it's pretty dark. For me, fortunately, it changed when I swapped tips, but I was just about to send them back because I just didn't like the sound. I assume that it's not the fit you're getting since you're not having the same problem with the W60.

If you check out Crinacle's measurements for both the UM Pro 50 and the W60 (that post is from 2016, so I assume that they're all the older models being measured), you can see that compared to the W60, at ~11kHz the UM Pro 50 is down about 6dB. At ~11kHz, the W60 is down only about 1.5dB relative to 1kHz, and down about 6dB relative to 500Hz. At the same frequency, it looks like the UM Pro 50 is down about 8dB relative to 1kHz, and down almost 12dB relative to 500Hz! To me that looks like a pretty dark earphone!

Somebody, please correct me if I'm not reading those measurements right.

Those measurements just about confirm the way I'm hearing the UM Pro 50, though to my ear they still have a nice sparkle to the top end.

I will also take my measurements/comparison and do a similar comparison as well. We are talking about original UM Pro 50 and original W60, right? I know Crin has been working on improving his calibration since 2016, so I would say the same as I would about my own measurements using budget measurement equipment - take amplitude peaks with some grain of salt. These measurements are not a raw data, it's compensated with cal curve, the same way I do it using my Veritas setup. And even so I'm confident about frequency of the peaks I capture in my measurements (I can confirm it every single time with a sine sweep), only the amplitude diff makes sense to me when I measure 2 IEMs in the same setup back to back, and just look at the difference between the peaks without the actual value of the peaks.

 

[twister6]

I've tried both the white 680 ohm resistance filters and without filters at all, and neither sound as good as the stock brown 1000 ohm filters. The white filters do sound close to the stock, although the upper mids sound more emphasized and bass sounds tighter with less emphasis. With no filter, I heard more balance with all the frequencies (sometimes it sounded as if frequencies were bleeding into each other: lower/upper minds and treble) but less dynamics as if the life was sucked out. Treble was more splashy and a tendency towards sibilance.
I have an Ibasso CB12 cable that cost a total of $109 that I really think brings the best out of the UM 50 Pro. It's a copper/ silver plated copper-copper weave cable. It sounds to me like it adds some extension both ways without sacrificing the gorgeous mids. I would have loved to have sprung for the $200 CB13 which is silver/copper, but it's just too much for me to spend on a cable.
And if you are using foam tips, they do tend to muffle treble in my experience.
Obviously, I threw my caution from my previous post to the wind and removed the filters with the tool from Aliexpress problem-free. It was much easier than past experience. It just proved to be a waste of time. Removing them altogether or replacing with the white altered the tonal balance a little bit, but in each case it sounded "off" to me.

CB12 is a better value, CB13 for a double of the price will feel like a diminishing return. Another thing, while I do like CB12s, it comes with 2.5mm and 3.5mm adaptor, they use a different mmcx connector housing which is hard to unplug (had issues with some Westone iems).

 

[Blackeyeliner]

Hey, @Blackeyeliner,
I don't think you're crazy either. My first impression of the UM Pro 50 was also that it's pretty dark. For me, fortunately, it changed when I swapped tips, but I was just about to send them back because I just didn't like the sound. I assume that it's not the fit you're getting since you're not having the same problem with the W60.

If you check out Crinacle's measurements for both the UM Pro 50 and the W60 (that post is from 2016, so I assume that they're all the older models being measured), you can see that compared to the W60, at ~11kHz the UM Pro 50 is down about 6dB. At ~11kHz, the W60 is down only about 1.5dB relative to 1kHz, and down about 6dB relative to 500Hz. At the same frequency, it looks like the UM Pro 50 is down about 8dB relative to 1kHz, and down almost 12dB relative to 500Hz! To me that looks like a pretty dark earphone!

Somebody, please correct me if I'm not reading those measurements right.

Those measurements just about confirm the way I'm hearing the UM Pro 50, though to my ear they still have a nice sparkle to the top end.

What tips did you change to which?

As for the measurements, those frequencies should be lower than the others (say 1 KHz), because of the Harman target curves, ear sensitivities and such, but yes, these graphs show some differences between the two. I will probably find someone to verify what is normal highs-wise - unequalized UM Pro 50, or equalized, especially now that I found the curve that brings them to "norm" for me. If that would be applied to W60, they would become unbearably bright, and that should be obvious.

 

[megabigeye]

I started out using the included foam tips, which really truncated the highs, then I tried Comply with wax guard, which also truncated the treble. That was when I was about to give up. Then I tried the included silicone, which doesn't seem to have any averse effect on the treble. Currently I'm using Comply without wax guard, which also doesn't have any effect on the treble. I also got the Mandarines tips, but I couldn't manage to get a good seal, though if I remember the treble wasn't bad.

This is the only earphone I've tried that which tips I use make such a big impact.

 

[davidcotton]

I started out using the included foam tips, which really truncated the highs, then I tried Comply with wax guard, which also truncated the treble. That was when I was about to give up. Then I tried the included silicone, which doesn't seem to have any averse effect on the treble. Currently I'm using Comply without wax guard, which also doesn't have any effect on the treble. I also got the Mandarines tips, but I couldn't manage to get a good seal, though if I remember the treble wasn't bad.

This is the only earphone I've tried that which tips I use make such a big impact.

Tried Shure Olives?

 

[megabigeye]

Tried Shure Olives?

I haven't. I'm pretty pleased with the Comply, with the possible exception of isolation. Comfort is great, sound is as good as I've heard.
By "Olives" do people mean their foam tips or silicone? Or something else? Come to think of it, somewhere I think I've got an ancient set of Shure orange foam, but I think those are buried somewhere in the basement. Maybe I'll give them a try some day, if I remember.

 

[davidcotton]

Foam.

 

[twister6]

What tips did you change to which?

As for the measurements, those frequencies should be lower than the others (say 1 KHz), because of the Harman target curves, ear sensitivities and such, but yes, these graphs show some differences between the two. I will probably find someone to verify what is normal highs-wise - unequalized UM Pro 50, or equalized, especially now that I found the curve that brings them to "norm" for me. If that would be applied to W60, they would become unbearably bright, and that should be obvious.

As I usually say, take it with a grain of salt because these are compensated (not raw measurements) and compensation curve is custom made. But when you look at a relative comparison between W60 (red) and UMPro50 (yellow), you can see exactly the difference which can explain what's going on and how you hear it (y-axis are expanded so you can see it better). You can always run a sine-sweep while listening to your IEMs to verity the peaks you "see" in this FR comparison capture.

And I always use this FR chart as my reference:

 

[Blackeyeliner]

Okay, I think I got it. Maybe it's not the headphones, it's loudness. Although, even on higer volumes bass and mids overpower the rest of the spectrum. I need to give it a try on a plane where I constantly lack bass and observe too much highs in W60's.

 

[megabigeye]

On something like a lark I decided to re-try the Symbios. Very, very glad I did. They finally fix the bass problems I was having, namely sub-bass and impact. Huzzah!
My old apartment sometimes had trouble getting above the mid-50s in the winter and last time I tried them was on one of the colder days (EDIT: which was causing the foam to not expand and therefore I couldn't get a seal).

I've been kind of grudgingly thinking about getting something else that's more fun with hip hop and electronic, but now I don't think I need to.

Of course, now I want to listen to the glorious bass and don't want to go to bed.