[lotech]

I'm not a musician but my son-in-law is a studio bass player who records with a few bands and performs live.
He and I have talked about monitors in the past. The impression I got from him is a 'normally' voiced IEM doesn't
provide enough information for him, he has a few IEMs and prefers something a bit 'warmer' and definitely wants more bass
impact. He said that when performing live this is exacerbated by stage acoustics and  volume (loud).
 
But then that is what the UM Pro series was voiced for. Listen to a true studio monitor, there's a huge difference
in the sound as opposed to a normal speaker. I suspect most people wouldn't like studio monitors.

 

[virgopunk]

I think you make a very good point about the sound sig of the UM Pro 50s. They're intended to be used when the ambient sounds are expected to be pretty loud. You can't lose track of the tempo when performing live and that's why I think the 50s have the extra bass. I think people tend to forget that these are prosumer iems. It's more like a happy coincidence that they have an appealing sound sig for consumers.

 

[twister6]

Great feedback, guys!
 
How about AM Pro series?  When I reviewed and analyzed it, I look at it from a perspective that I like how it raises awareness of what's going on around me.  I don't have to take them out of my ears to hear my kids screaming in the other room or when doing yard work and my wife calls me.  Also, great when riding a bike so you can hear what's going on around you.  But these ambient filter monitors actually designed specifically for performing musician so they can monitor the music on stage, and mix it with an ambient noise of the crowd in front of them.
 
Any musician used it on stage?

 

[Gosod]

I don't think so, even if they could, why would I waste more money to correct a crappy IEM? Would be cheaper to downgrade it to Pro 30 for much better sound quality.

you would think so but I your opinion is not shared because I personally tested these headphones with different cables.

 

[Danz03]

Yes, musicians always eq their IEMs for stage performances, as they all have different preferences, i.e., a singer would want to hear the high mids more so than the bass, whereas a bass player would certainly wants to hear the bass more (I personally would rather keep everything flat but raise the level of the musicaians' instrument levels respectively, or however they want their mix to be like instead). My point is, if westone where to design a pair of IEMs for all kinds of musicians, wouldn't it make more sense to make them as neutural sounding as possible? The more flat they are, less eqing will be needed relatively. i.e., a bassist who needs more bass would only have to eq up 3dB, and likewise a singer would have to eq up the high mids by 3dB, but with the Pro 50, probably the bassist would only have to eq up the bass by 1dB but the singer would have to eq up the high mids by 5-6 dB. If Westone designed the Pro 50 specifically for bassist, they should have advertised it that way.

I know many producers/musicians/engineers would eq their cans or IEMs because of loss of hearing due to years of monitoring music loud, 105dB+, and in that sense, a brighter sound signature would be more appreciated.

I was talking the other day to someone who performs on the stage, and they suggested that typically bass/rhythm is what they look for as higher priority over clarity and balance when monitoring during performance.  So, maybe there is something to why the tuning is colored here.  I'm not a professional musician or producer, music production is another one of my hobbies, but for mixing and mastering of the tracks I look for a flat/balanced sound signature, more in ES60 territory.  But apparently some stage musicians prefer warmer sound with more bass impact.  Anybody want to chime in on that?  I know, we got lots of lurkers reading this thread, so maybe someone can share their opinion and experience 

Oh, and I also do agree with you, Pro50 responds really well to EQ.  I know, I keep preaching about no-EQ, no-DSP effect, no V4A effects  but that's only because I want to describe the sound how I hear it without any effect coloring.  But I do realize that many people tailor the sound with EQ to their liking.  Not all IEMs respond well to EQ, but in my opinion UmPro50 does well.

 

[lotech]

I've been reading the 64Audio Adel thread and find it interesting that 64Audio (who primarily cater to musicians) design their IEMs
for higher impedence professional stage gear. I wonder if the UM PRO series are designed the same way?
There seems to be a similar voicing of the IEMs darker, more bass emphasis.
Has anyone tested the UM50 PRO with something like the iFi iEMATCH or UE buffer jack?

 

[twister6]

  I've been reading the 64Audio Adel thread and find it interesting that 64Audio (who primarily cater to musicians) design their IEMs
for higher impedence professional stage gear. I wonder if the UM PRO series are designed the same way?
There seems to be a similar voicing of the IEMs darker, more bass emphasis.
Has anyone tested the UM50 PRO with something like the iFi iEMATCH or UE buffer jack?

 
That's a very interesting thought.  Let me try tonight to test UMPro50 with iEMatch and UEBJ to see if I hear any difference.  I heard in the past that Karl Cartwright (Westone sound designer) uses A&K DAPs to finalize his tuning, so I seriously doubt he caters to high impedance sources used by stage musicians, in the same way as U12 and other 64audio IEMs were tuned.  I have a feeling W- and UMPro series are tuned for lower impedance sources, but still interesting to check out how they respond when you mess with impedance.  It's BA drivers after all

 

[BKG22]

Frankly speaking, the UM line was specifically created and tuned for professional musicians. The fact that others like the sound is a nice coincidence. In fact, Westone is one of the few, if not only, to have a separate line just for musicians. Now I am not a musician but the Cartwright brothers are and first started making IEMs in the mid 80's for their own band. The reason that Westone carries a W line for music lovers and a UM line for musicians is the fact that the use cases and environment are so different. 
 
I recently got to sit in the monitor booth for The Band Perry and I can tell you that the signal and sound that comes from that equipment couldn't be more different than a master track on my phone or A&K.
 
Specifically for the UM Pro 50, that is the favorite for drummers and bass players alike. While it can be EQ'ed for guitarist and vocalist, if you actually look at who uses it, it is for those that do need significant more bass as it is harder to EQ bass as it is for mids and highs. If the driver can't give you that low end output then that's it,  whereas the mids and highs can deliver more from that unit and are better to be EQ'ed. Bands like Muse and Brad Paisley actually use the UM line as they do not like custom monitors and I can tell you the guitarist and singers use Um Pro 20 or 30 and the bass player and drummer use the 50. 
 
All in all, the UM line is purpose driven for musicians and people like me just happen to like how they sound for personal audio. If you don't like the sound of the UM line then I would tell you to go to the W line where you are going to get a much flatter response curve. 

 

[BKG22]

Karl and Kris use professional monitoring equipment and real life gigs (They still play in a band and have gigs weekly) when tuning the UM line. 

 

[Danz03]

That's great! It certainly explains why I hated the Pro 50 so much. If that's the case, why didn't Westone advertise the Pro 50 as sepecifically designed for bass players and drummers? I would have stayed clear of them if I knew.

Specifically for the UM Pro 50, that is the favorite for drummers and bass players alike. While it can be EQ'ed for guitarist and vocalist, if you actually look at who uses it, it is for those that do need significant more bass as it is harder to EQ bass as it is for mids and highs. If the driver can't give you that low end output then that's it,  whereas the mids and highs can deliver more from that unit and are better to be EQ'ed. Bands like Muse and Brad Paisley actually use the UM line as they do not like custom monitors and I can tell you the guitarist and singers use Um Pro 20 or 30 and the bass player and drummer use the 50. 

 

[BKG22]

Sounds like we've let you down with that communication.

We do try to call out the increased low end but can clearly do better communicating the benefits and use pattern for them.

 

[twister6]

Sounds like we've let you down with that communication.

We do try to call out the increased low end but can clearly do better communicating the benefits and use pattern for them.

 
Don't think you let anybody down, it's just impossible to make everybody happy

 
I guess some people expected UM Pro 50 to be more neutral, but that's not the case with these IEMs.  For sure, the bass is one of its strongest attributes which can go head-to-head with a more expensive 846.
 
Since Westone has so many different models across W-series and UM Pro series, maybe it will be a good idea to have a simple Bass/Mids/Treble graph indicator next to each one under a product listing so people can figure out which one will suite their taste better in a relative comparison.
 
Anybody else has any other suggestions, since we got Westone rep reading this thread?

 

[twister6]

  I've been reading the 64Audio Adel thread and find it interesting that 64Audio (who primarily cater to musicians) design their IEMs
for higher impedence professional stage gear. I wonder if the UM PRO series are designed the same way?
There seems to be a similar voicing of the IEMs darker, more bass emphasis.
Has anyone tested the UM50 PRO with something like the iFi iEMATCH or UE buffer jack?

 
OK, just confirmed, absolutely NO change in sound quality with or without UE buffer jack, using LPG as a source.

 

[lotech]

   
OK, just confirmed, absolutely NO change in sound quality with or without UE buffer jack, using LPG as a source.

Thanks for checking that out. Good to know that Westone doesn't change the impedence of the UMPRO series .

 

[twister6]

 

   
OK, just confirmed, absolutely NO change in sound quality with or without UE buffer jack, using LPG as a source.

Thanks for checking that out. Good to know that Westone doesn't change the impedence of the UMPRO series .

 
Indeed, that's good.  As we learned from 64audio, they designed some of their iems for performing musicians who use a wireless headphone receiver pack (that one has higher output impedance).  In case of Westone UM Pro series which is also designed for musician (though, I still think UM Pro 30 is damn good for everyday use out of your smartphone), the sound should be OK with a low impedance source.