Westone UM PRO Series Thread
Jan 7, 2017 at 2:14 PM Post #2,101 of 3,033
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Strictly for music production, the only Westone I would use is ES60.  Otherwise you want something neutral so you don't adjust the mastering EQ to correct for the sound sig of your IEM or full size.  M50x is too bassy, not good for music production, but rather for monitoring or mixing.  I also reviewed M70x - horrible for listening, too flat, but some people like it for mixing and production because it's dead flat and bland.  I have all of them reviewed here.

With my current review queue, i'm booked for the next 2-3 months solid.  So, will ping AT a little bit later.  Otherwise, lets get back to UM Pro and W-series discussion since this is Westone thread
wink.gif


Hey twister6, I love and really enjoyed your reviews and one of them nearly got me to grab a pair of Westone. However, it seems that you are on the edge of having biased towards Westone TOTLs and against AT based on the ones you reviewed. Please reserve your judgement until you have fully experienced the E70, I am not saying those are the better but they are definitely many miles ahead of what you mentioned (m50x, m70x, IM03 or even the much loved MSR7) and above all (like many confirmed) have a very non- AT sound signature
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P/S: Similar to you, I wont EQ in any case to get the most original sound of a pair of IEMs or cans that manufacturers want us to hear.

 
Of course, I wouldn't even dare to judge E70 before taking a listen to it.  I was just expressing an opinion based on my previous experience which made me a bit skeptical.  Keep in mind, I'm as much Westone fanboy as I'm Audio-Technica and at least a dozen of other brand names
biggrin.gif
  It used to be a lot easier to narrow down IEMs, while now there are too many great releases.  I guess you narrow it down by price categories
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Jan 11, 2017 at 5:31 AM Post #2,102 of 3,033

Danz03

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I haven't heard any AT IEMs apart from the E70 which I first heard about from this thread and loved them right away. The other AT IEMs I've heard recently are the brand new so called 'Flagship' LS 400 which I mentioned in an earlier post, and they sounded absolutely terrible, not unlike the Pro 50 in my opinion, no high frequencies details whatsoever. So if the E70 are very un-AT like, I congratulate them.
 
​I doubt it that manufacturers deliberately tune their IEMs and headphones to a particular sound signature, it's more like what they can do physically, otherwise, all reference IEMs or headphones should sound completely balanced and neutral, right? The Pro 50 are supposed to be reference monitors and yet they sound nothing like that, shouldn't all the UM Pro series have the same or at least similar sound signature?
 
Like I said before, I own so many Westone IEMs from UM2 to W60, UM Pro 50 just sound so odd (and bad) in comparison.
 
Quote:
Please reserve your judgement until you have fully experienced the E70, I am not saying those are the better but they are definitely many miles ahead of what you mentioned (m50x, m70x, IM03 or even the much loved MSR7) and above all (like many confirmed) have a very non- AT sound signature
biggrin.gif


P/S: Similar to you, I wont EQ in any case to get the most original sound of a pair of IEMs or cans that manufacturers want us to hear.

 
 
  Of course, I wouldn't even dare to judge E70 before taking a listen to it.  I was just expressing an opinion based on my previous experience which made me a bit skeptical.  Keep in mind, I'm as much Westone fanboy as I'm Audio-Technica and at least a dozen of other brand names
biggrin.gif
  It used to be a lot easier to narrow down IEMs, while now there are too many great releases.  I guess you narrow it down by price categories
wink.gif

 
Jan 11, 2017 at 8:21 AM Post #2,103 of 3,033
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  I haven't heard any AT IEMs apart from the E70 which I first heard about from this thread and loved them right away. The other AT IEMs I've heard recently are the brand new so called 'Flagship' LS 400 which I mentioned in an earlier post, and they sounded absolutely terrible, not unlike the Pro 50 in my opinion, no high frequencies details whatsoever. So if the E70 are very un-AT like, I congratulate them.
 
​I doubt it that manufacturers deliberately tune their IEMs and headphones to a particular sound signature, it's more like what they can do physically, otherwise, all reference IEMs or headphones should sound completely balanced and neutral, right? The Pro 50 are supposed to be reference monitors and yet they sound nothing like that, shouldn't all the UM Pro series have the same or at least similar sound signature?
 
Like I said before, I own so many Westone IEMs from UM2 to W60, UM Pro 50 just sound so odd (and bad) in comparison.
 

 
I guess that's a reason Westone and other manufacturers have so many different models in their product line up.  Can't make everybody happy, so you choose the one which sounds better to your ears 
wink.gif

 
But in terms of sound, I believe they do tune it to a specific sound sig.  I mean, number of drivers plays a role (those are your building blocks), then you have crossover, dampening filters, and often the drivers itself are customized and not off the shelf.  Even Westone rep (@BKG22) in W80 thread confirmed their drivers are proprietary and not available to any other company: http://www.head-fi.org/t/821612/westone-w80/285#post_13123933  So, you are right, drivers have some physical limitation, but also there are other fine tuning factors that go along with it.
 
Jan 11, 2017 at 9:56 AM Post #2,104 of 3,033

Danz03

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I can understand Westone want to make a range of different models for different people, but why make the UM Pro 50 so different sounding. I mean the W60 is quite different sounding to the UM series but at least it's still quite a generally balanced sound signature, whereas the UM Pro 50 are more like beats solo, and the only one like that. Which seems so illogical to me, especially when they were making claims about them being the pinnacle of fidelity.
 
I met up with the owner and designer of Rhapsodio a few years back and he was showing me how he tuned his custom IEMs, it turned out to be more of a 'trail and error' rather than a very precise and accurate process. Not saying that his products are not great, in fact I think they sound great (the 10 driver pair I demoed at least), but there seemed to be quite a lot of limitations on how finely one can tune the BA amateur drivers. It's like how JH Audio Layla are supposed to be designed for mixers/producers for monitoring their mixes, but in actual fact the trebles are not that accurate and transparent to me, which leads me to think that maybe getting good IEMs are just pure luck.
 
Quote:
  I guess that's a reason Westone and other manufacturers have so many different models in their product line up.  Can't make everybody happy, so you choose the one which sounds better to your ears 
wink.gif

 
But in terms of sound, I believe they do tune it to a specific sound sig.  I mean, number of drivers plays a role (those are your building blocks), then you have crossover, dampening filters, and often the drivers itself are customized and not off the shelf.  Even Westone rep (@BKG22) in W80 thread confirmed their drivers are proprietary and not available to any other company: http://www.head-fi.org/t/821612/westone-w80/285#post_13123933  So, you are right, drivers have some physical limitation, but also there are other fine tuning factors that go along with it.

 
Jan 11, 2017 at 10:41 AM Post #2,105 of 3,033
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  I can understand Westone want to make a range of different models for different people, but why make the UM Pro 50 so different sounding. I mean the W60 is quite different sounding to the UM series but at least it's still quite a generally balanced sound signature, whereas the UM Pro 50 are more like beats solo, and the only one like that. Which seems so illogical to me, especially when they were making claims about them being the pinnacle of fidelity.
 
I met up with the owner and designer of Rhapsodio a few years back and he was showing me how he tuned his custom IEMs, it turned out to be more of a 'trail and error' rather than a very precise and accurate process. Not saying that his products are not great, in fact I think they sound great (the 10 driver pair I demoed at least), but there seemed to be quite a lot of limitations on how finely one can tune the BA amateur drivers. It's like how JH Audio Layla are supposed to be designed for mixers/producers for monitoring their mixes, but in actual fact the trebles are not that accurate and transparent to me, which leads me to think that maybe getting good IEMs are just pure luck.
 
Quote:
  I guess that's a reason Westone and other manufacturers have so many different models in their product line up.  Can't make everybody happy, so you choose the one which sounds better to your ears 
wink.gif

 
But in terms of sound, I believe they do tune it to a specific sound sig.  I mean, number of drivers plays a role (those are your building blocks), then you have crossover, dampening filters, and often the drivers itself are customized and not off the shelf.  Even Westone rep (@BKG22) in W80 thread confirmed their drivers are proprietary and not available to any other company: http://www.head-fi.org/t/821612/westone-w80/285#post_13123933  So, you are right, drivers have some physical limitation, but also there are other fine tuning factors that go along with it.

 
Hang on, UM Pro 50 was introduced almost 3 years ago, so it's not the latest in Westone line up now.  You got W60, ES60, W80, etc.  Pinnacle of fidelity is a marketing phrase relative to their other products back at CES 2014 introduction.  We have to put it in a perspective of the time frame when it was introduced first, and it doesn't matter what company says since we are as consumers are the final judge of the product.  And while judging, we have a different opinion where I never seen everybody agreeing on everything.  You have a strong negative opinion about UM Pro 50, and it's your subjective opinion which I respect.  I know @Spyro hates W50 with passion, while loves UM Pro 50.  I'm actually glad we don't agree on everything, otherwise all the discussions on head-fi would be pretty boring
wink.gif

 
I have reviewed and compared UM Pro 50 in every review W60, ES60, and W80 (links under each model) and have written my unbiased subjective opinion how each one compares to UM Pro 50.  They all sound a little different and in my opinion are targeted for a different audience.  Again, just my subjective opinion, but I yet to come across a "really bad" IEM in $500-$2.5k price range I have tested.  Every C/IEM is a vision of how company interprets the sound and wants to differentiate tuning from other models.  And they target it to different audience.  The guys who think Beats Solo is the best thing since sliced bread are looking at us and saying we are crazy and don't know what we are talking about either lol!!!
 
Companies are in business to sell their products and to appeal to a different audience.  That's why they release a variety with different tuning and in different price ranges.  Honestly, I used to have a similar set of mind, thinking "are you kidding me, it sounds horrible and they want that much for it?" until I realized it's just my subjective opinion because this pair of IEMs not my cup of tea.  Someone else gonna say "hey, that analytical bright sound is crap, I want bass with tamed down treble" and so on.  For the record, I only review 75% of products I receive, and one quarter goes back to the manufacturers without even review (and, btw, I sent back the latest dynamic driver Rhapsodio iem without review because it wasn't my cup of tea - doesn't mean it's bad and I know many like it a lot, but not me).
 
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Jan 11, 2017 at 11:47 AM Post #2,107 of 3,033

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  If you are open to using EQ (treble boost), Pro50 is among the greatest I have ever heard.  Going on 2 years as my "go-to" IEM.  It has a heavier bass sound but what separates it from most everything else is:
 
- extreemly refined high quality driver sound.
- very natural organic sound.
- effortless full sound unamped.
- on the warm side but all the detail is there.  Great resolution.
- if you like to listen loud, zero distortion and non fatiguing for endless hours of listening.
- Insane vocals (did I say organic and natural?) Very balanced.  NOT claustrophobic like Pro30.
- I would prefer a larger soundstage but Pro50 allows you to REALLY immerse yourself into the music. It's a trade-off.

preaching to the choir here
 
Jan 11, 2017 at 10:35 PM Post #2,109 of 3,033

pacman46

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I personally cannot listen to a iem and say that I love or hate it in 5 or 10 minutes or whatever. Bright or dark sounding. I traded for the um50 a while back and at first listen, hell even a day or two days later I still didn't really like them. After about a week with them I started getting it. Then they were just sounding so engaging. Separation was crazy good to me anyways. Even with my w60's took awhile for my brain to say,, oh ya!! Hell ya!! These are incredible. Again just opinion. I know some people can tell right away if they will like a can just from that earphone sounding bright or dark. And I'm pretty sure they made the um series for stage use. And I'm glad they don't all sound the same to me in the same line up to be honest.
 
Jan 12, 2017 at 12:29 AM Post #2,110 of 3,033

Danz03

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You said you work in music production yourself, so you must know that the UM Pro 50 are neither balanced, neutral nor anywhere near to flat sounding, so why would you make judgement of other IEMs against the UM Pro 50? To me it's a bit like making comparisons of color monitors using a monitor that has the red channel missing as the reference. The UM3x were released in 2009, to me, they are more close to fidelity than Pro 50 can ever be.
 
I don't judge IEMs because I have a personal preference, I just don't see the point of making IEMs (especially the so called 'reference' ones) with deliberate sonic colorings or favorings added, if that's what I want, I could easily use an equalizer to do so. Even ppl like Sypro and ljnew who are big fans of the Pro 50 claimed that they need to EQ the treble to fix the problem, so it just proves that the UM Pro 50 are flawed and just not that great.
 
I believe that a good pair of IEM should at least be able to reproduce music (as) close (as) to what the producers or engineer intend it to be heard, no more and no less, I'm not being biased or objective in that sense. If I made a recording of an acoustic steel guitar, I expect to hear it on my monitor as crisp and bright like a steel guitar, not warm and mellow like a classical nylon string guitar instead.
 
Quote:
 Hang on, UM Pro 50 was introduced almost 3 years ago, so it's not the latest in Westone line up now.  You got W60, ES60, W80, etc.  Pinnacle of fidelity is a marketing phrase relative to their other products back at CES 2014 introduction.  We have to put it in a perspective of the time frame when it was introduced first, and it doesn't matter what company says since we are as consumers are the final judge of the product.  And while judging, we have a different opinion where I never seen everybody agreeing on everything.  You have a strong negative opinion about UM Pro 50, and it's your subjective opinion which I respect.  I know @Spyro hates W50 with passion, while loves UM Pro 50.  I'm actually glad we don't agree on everything, otherwise all the discussions on head-fi would be pretty boring
wink.gif

 
I have reviewed and compared UM Pro 50 in every review W60, ES60, and W80 (links under each model) and have written my unbiased subjective opinion how each one compares to UM Pro 50.  They all sound a little different and in my opinion are targeted for a different audience.  Again, just my subjective opinion, but I yet to come across a "really bad" IEM in $500-$2.5k price range I have tested.  Every C/IEM is a vision of how company interprets the sound and wants to differentiate tuning from other models.  And they target it to different audience.  The guys who think Beats Solo is the best thing since sliced bread are looking at us and saying we are crazy and don't know what we are talking about either lol!!!
 
Companies are in business to sell their products and to appeal to a different audience.  That's why they release a variety with different tuning and in different price ranges.  Honestly, I used to have a similar set of mind, thinking "are you kidding me, it sounds horrible and they want that much for it?" until I realized it's just my subjective opinion because this pair of IEMs not my cup of tea.  Someone else gonna say "hey, that analytical bright sound is crap, I want bass with tamed down treble" and so on.  For the record, I only review 75% of products I receive, and one quarter goes back to the manufacturers without even review (and, btw, I sent back the latest dynamic driver Rhapsodio iem without review because it wasn't my cup of tea - doesn't mean it's bad and I know many like it a lot, but not me).
beerchug.gif

 
I can, especially when it's obviously that the high frequencies are missing like the UM Pro 50. Just like when a color monitor or TV is missing the red channel. Yes, the UM series is supposed to be designed for stage use, that's why I don't understand why the pro 50 in particular are so sonically colored.
 
Quote:. 
I personally cannot listen to a iem and say that I love or hate it in 5 or 10 minutes or whatever. Bright or dark sounding. I traded for the um50 a while back and at first listen, hell even a day or two days later I still didn't really like them. After about a week with them I started getting it. Then they were just sounding so engaging. Separation was crazy good to me anyways. Even with my w60's took awhile for my brain to say,, oh ya!! Hell ya!! These are incredible. Again just opinion. I know some people can tell right away if they will like a can just from that earphone sounding bright or dark. And I'm pretty sure they made the um series for stage use. And I'm glad they don't all sound the same to me in the same line up to be honest.

 
Jan 12, 2017 at 8:26 AM Post #2,111 of 3,033
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  You said you work in music production yourself, so you must know that the UM Pro 50 are neither balanced, neutral nor anywhere near to flat sounding, so why would you make judgement of other IEMs against the UM Pro 50? To me it's a bit like making comparisons of color monitors using a monitor that has the red channel missing as the reference. The UM3x were released in 2009, to me, they are more close to fidelity than Pro 50 can ever be.
 
I don't judge IEMs because I have a personal preference, I just don't see the point of making IEMs (especially the so called 'reference' ones) with deliberate sonic colorings or favorings added, if that's what I want, I could easily use an equalizer to do so. Even ppl like Sypro and ljnew who are big fans of the Pro 50 claimed that they need to EQ the treble to fix the problem, so it just proves that the UM Pro 50 are flawed and just not that great.
 
I believe that a good pair of IEM should at least be able to reproduce music (as) close (as) to what the producers or engineer intend it to be heard, no more and no less, I'm not being biased or objective in that sense. If I made a recording of an acoustic steel guitar, I expect to hear it on my monitor as crisp and bright like a steel guitar, not warm and mellow like a classical nylon string guitar instead.
 
Quote:
  Hang on, UM Pro 50 was introduced almost 3 years ago, so it's not the latest in Westone line up now.  You got W60, ES60, W80, etc.  Pinnacle of fidelity is a marketing phrase relative to their other products back at CES 2014 introduction.  We have to put it in a perspective of the time frame when it was introduced first, and it doesn't matter what company says since we are as consumers are the final judge of the product.  And while judging, we have a different opinion where I never seen everybody agreeing on everything.  You have a strong negative opinion about UM Pro 50, and it's your subjective opinion which I respect.  I know @Spyro hates W50 with passion, while loves UM Pro 50.  I'm actually glad we don't agree on everything, otherwise all the discussions on head-fi would be pretty boring
wink.gif

 
I have reviewed and compared UM Pro 50 in every review W60, ES60, and W80 (links under each model) and have written my unbiased subjective opinion how each one compares to UM Pro 50.  They all sound a little different and in my opinion are targeted for a different audience.  Again, just my subjective opinion, but I yet to come across a "really bad" IEM in $500-$2.5k price range I have tested.  Every C/IEM is a vision of how company interprets the sound and wants to differentiate tuning from other models.  And they target it to different audience.  The guys who think Beats Solo is the best thing since sliced bread are looking at us and saying we are crazy and don't know what we are talking about either lol!!!
 
Companies are in business to sell their products and to appeal to a different audience.  That's why they release a variety with different tuning and in different price ranges.  Honestly, I used to have a similar set of mind, thinking "are you kidding me, it sounds horrible and they want that much for it?" until I realized it's just my subjective opinion because this pair of IEMs not my cup of tea.  Someone else gonna say "hey, that analytical bright sound is crap, I want bass with tamed down treble" and so on.  For the record, I only review 75% of products I receive, and one quarter goes back to the manufacturers without even review (and, btw, I sent back the latest dynamic driver Rhapsodio iem without review because it wasn't my cup of tea - doesn't mean it's bad and I know many like it a lot, but not me).
beerchug.gif

 

 
I produce music as a hobby, the same way as reviewing audio gear; it's not my full time job.  The knowledge how music is mixed, processed, and mastered gives me another point of reference when analyzing what/how I hear.
 
And yes, I don't find UM Pro 50 to be reference or neutral, it has its own unique sound signature.  In my reviews I describe IEMs the way how I hear it.  But as you well aware, we do hear things a little different since we have different ear sensitivity, earcanal anatomy, preferences of different music styles, different hardware sources, resolution of files we use for testing, etc.  Just too many variables, thus I always consider every review to be subjective.  Even if you are referring to measured FR graphs, that response is based on some modeled ear coupler with mic, not YOUR actual ear, so it will not be exactly how you will hear it.  So, even subjective description of how any of us hear the sound is only half the story.  I think when you compare one pair of iems to another one it could paint the rest of the picture.  If you are intimately familiar with a pair of iems I'm comparing the test unit to, you can have a better understanding through a relative comparison if it makes sense for you to upgrade (if you want more bass, or more clarity, or wider soundstage).  Also, it's true, you can adjust FR with eq to correct some frequencies, but you can't make soundstage wider (UM Pro series vs W-series) or improve the resolution and layering (ES60/W80 vs other warner/smoother Westone iems).
 
Regarding judging IEMs, as I reviewer I don't judge them but rather describe them.  It's up to my readers/consumers to judge if it's their cup of tea
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Jan 12, 2017 at 10:59 PM Post #2,112 of 3,033

Danz03

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If you think that we all hear sound from IEMs differently, so what is the point of describing them when you know for sure most people or everyone else will hear it differently as you do? It will actually be very misleading. And as I mentioned before, which you didn't acknowledge, even big fans of UM Pro 50 claimed they are lacking in treble and have to resort to equalization; so I don't think this treble light problem is only unique to me, and I doubt we hear them too differently. You mentioned in an earlier post saying that you'd only use your ES60 un-equalized; if we follow your claim that we all hear sound differently, it will be more than likely you'd be monitoring your music production with not so accurately sounding IEMs?

As for EQ and soundstage, if you've got a pair of HD 800, which are known for their wide soundstage, just lower the treble a few dB around 6-8kHz and you'll find the super wide soundstage reducing too. Anyway, a wide soundstage isn't necessarily a good thing. If I'm listening to a piano recording made in a small chamber, why would I want it to sound as if it was performed at the Royal Albert Hall?

I work with calibrated monitors all the time, so it's quite irritating to listen to headphones or IEMs with a whole chuck of frequency spectrum missing. The only not so neutral sounding IEMs that I quite enjoy using are the W60 which make harsh sounding or overly compressed music sounds smooth and soothing to listen to, yet preserving all the musical details.

I produce music as a hobby, the same way as reviewing audio gear; it's not my full time job.  The knowledge how music is mixed, processed, and mastered gives me another point of reference when analyzing what/how I hear.

And yes, I don't find UM Pro 50 to be reference or neutral, it has its own unique sound signature.  In my reviews I describe IEMs the way how I hear it.  But as you well aware, we do hear things a little different since we have different ear sensitivity, earcanal anatomy, preferences of different music styles, different hardware sources, resolution of files we use for testing, etc.  Just too many variables, thus I always consider every review to be subjective.  Even if you are referring to measured FR graphs, that response is based on some modeled ear coupler with mic, not YOUR actual ear, so it will not be exactly how you will hear it.  So, even subjective description of how any of us hear the sound is only half the story.  I think when you compare one pair of iems to another one it could paint the rest of the picture.  If you are intimately familiar with a pair of iems I'm comparing the test unit to, you can have a better understanding through a relative comparison if it makes sense for you to upgrade (if you want more bass, or more clarity, or wider soundstage).  Also, it's true, you can adjust FR with eq to correct some frequencies, but you can't make soundstage wider (UM Pro series vs W-series) or improve the resolution and layering (ES60/W80 vs other warner/smoother Westone iems).

Regarding judging IEMs, as I reviewer I don't judge them but rather describe them.  It's up to my readers/consumers to judge if it's their cup of tea :wink:
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 12:35 AM Post #2,113 of 3,033
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If you think that we all hear sound from IEMs differently, so what is the point of describing them when you know for sure most people or everyone else will hear it differently as you do? It will actually be very misleading. And as I mentioned before, which you didn't acknowledge, even big fans of UM Pro 50 claimed they are lacking in treble and have to resort to equalization; so I don't think this treble light problem is only unique to me, and I doubt we hear them too differently. You mentioned in an earlier post saying that you'd only use your ES60 un-equalized; if we follow your claim that we all hear sound differently, it will be more than likely you'd be monitoring your music production with not so accurately sounding IEMs?

As for EQ and soundstage, if you've got a pair of HD 800, which are known for their wide soundstage, just lower the treble a few dB around 6-8kHz and you'll find the super wide soundstage reducing too. Anyway, a wide soundstage isn't necessarily a good thing. If I'm listening to a piano recording made in a small chamber, why would I want it to sound as if it was performed at the Royal Albert Hall?

I work with calibrated monitors all the time, so it's quite irritating to listen to headphones or IEMs with a whole chuck of frequency spectrum missing. The only not so neutral sounding IEMs that I quite enjoy using are the W60 which make harsh sounding or overly compressed music sounds smooth and soothing to listen to, yet preserving all the musical details.
I produce music as a hobby, the same way as reviewing audio gear; it's not my full time job.  The knowledge how music is mixed, processed, and mastered gives me another point of reference when analyzing what/how I hear.

And yes, I don't find UM Pro 50 to be reference or neutral, it has its own unique sound signature.  In my reviews I describe IEMs the way how I hear it.  But as you well aware, we do hear things a little different since we have different ear sensitivity, earcanal anatomy, preferences of different music styles, different hardware sources, resolution of files we use for testing, etc.  Just too many variables, thus I always consider every review to be subjective.  Even if you are referring to measured FR graphs, that response is based on some modeled ear coupler with mic, not YOUR actual ear, so it will not be exactly how you will hear it.  So, even subjective description of how any of us hear the sound is only half the story.  I think when you compare one pair of iems to another one it could paint the rest of the picture.  If you are intimately familiar with a pair of iems I'm comparing the test unit to, you can have a better understanding through a relative comparison if it makes sense for you to upgrade (if you want more bass, or more clarity, or wider soundstage).  Also, it's true, you can adjust FR with eq to correct some frequencies, but you can't make soundstage wider (UM Pro series vs W-series) or improve the resolution and layering (ES60/W80 vs other warner/smoother Westone iems).

Regarding judging IEMs, as I reviewer I don't judge them but rather describe them.  It's up to my readers/consumers to judge if it's their cup of tea
wink.gif

 
Differently, but not in a night'n'day way.  Not sure if you're near a place where you can listen to different IEMs and full size cans, but majority of people don't have such luxury, thus reviews help them to at least narrow it down.  It also helps greatly when you are reading a simple comparison relative to IEMs you own or heard before, and that can paint the picture of the sound.  Every bit helps.
 
Regarding lacking in treble, it's part of a warm smooth musical signature.  There are many other IEMs that follow the same tuning.  It's absolutely fine that you don't like UmPro50 while someone else might like it, or will use EQ to like it.  Doesn't make Pro50 or any other similarly tuned IEM to be bad.  That's my point.
 
I don't use EQ at all.  If anything, I just play around with eartips and cables to fine-tune the sound.  I haven't used Pro50 in awhile, but when I did - always with pure silver cables.  And when I do some music production, I actually prefer UERR because of its neutral tuning, but ES60 is great too.
 
Not trying to convince you if UM Pro 50 good or bad.  Some people don't like it, while others do, and we all good!
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Jan 15, 2017 at 3:17 AM Post #2,114 of 3,033

Jodiuh

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Regarding eartips...

The star tips tend to pop out of my ears, especially when working out at the gym.

The true fit tips have a teeny tiny output hole that seems to get foamed up and they didn't last long at all.

I just ordered these:

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/shure-pa910-5-pair-olive-eartips-for-shure-westone-klipsch-and-etymotic.html

But I did read about someone claiming they snapped tubes trying to get them off their Westones. I have the UM Pro 30 for reference. Should I be concerned?

Also, for those that have used the Olives, can you compare/comment on them?

Finally, anything else to try for eartips?

Thanks and hope you're all having a Happy New Ear!!!
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 12:34 PM Post #2,115 of 3,033
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Regarding eartips...

The star tips tend to pop out of my ears, especially when working out at the gym.

The true fit tips have a teeny tiny output hole that seems to get foamed up and they didn't last long at all.

I just ordered these:

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/shure-pa910-5-pair-olive-eartips-for-shure-westone-klipsch-and-etymotic.html

But I did read about someone claiming they snapped tubes trying to get them off their Westones. I have the UM Pro 30 for reference. Should I be concerned?

Also, for those that have used the Olives, can you compare/comment on them?

Finally, anything else to try for eartips?

Thanks and hope you're all having a Happy New Ear!!!

 
I use Shure olive silicone eartips with Westone iems and there is no problem.  Shure and Westone nozzles have the same diameter.  I love star tips, but only the largest (orange) one fits me the best, and it's a bit too long for my ears, popping out as well.  Shure olive silicone tips (the largest one) has the same seal but a little shorter.  I got them dirt cheap from Sweetwater where it's sold in a pack of 5.
 

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