Westone UM PRO Series Thread
Jan 5, 2017 at 10:01 PM Post #2,086 of 3,033

ljnew

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You are right, they are very good, same kind of high frequency details as my K10U, maybe a little less bass in comparison, but probably would be better with foam tips. Price is good too in Tokyo, only USD357, cheaper than my Pro 30, got a pair already, thanks. :wink:

If you are talking about ath-e70, they are very source dependant.  Play a bassy song and compare to k10u.  Imho the bass is at least on par, if not better than the se846.  And like you mentioned, you need a good seal.
 
But wow, are you saying a $400 iem competes with $1800 k10u?
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 10:18 PM Post #2,087 of 3,033

Danz03

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Yes, the ath-e70's sound signature is similar to the W80 I demoed on Tuesday, but around 1/4 the price, fit is not nearly as comfortable though, and the W80 drivers are tiny! I wonder how Westone could get 8 drivers into that tiny shell, my Layla is more than twice as big!!! BTW, I tried out the new Audio Technica flagship ATH-LS400 in Tokyo too, they sound really terrible, no details whatsoever, proves that higher price doesn't necessarily mean better sound quality.

Are you talking about the ath-e70?
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 10:25 PM Post #2,088 of 3,033

ljnew

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Yes, the ath-e70's sound signature is similar to the W80 I demoed on Tuesday, but around 1/4 the price, fit is not nearly as comfortable though, and the W80 drivers are tiny! I wonder how Westone could get 8 drivers into that tiny shell, my Layla is more than twice as big!!! BTW, I tried out the new Audio Technica flagship ATH-LS400 in Tokyo too, they sound really terrible, no details whatsoever, proves that higher price doesn't necessarily mean better sound quality.

That's what i said and why i returned w80.  Good to know im not just crazy or the only one.  e70 only 3 drivers why i believe drivers really don't matter.
 
Yes fit isn't the best on ath-e70, but they sound awesome to me.  I could only imagine how good they sound with proper seal.
 
e70 very source dependant.  Play a bassy song and compare to k10u.  Imho the bass is at least on par, if not better than the se846.  And like you mentioned, you need a good seal.
 
So would you say ath-e70 competes with Layla?
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 1:04 AM Post #2,089 of 3,033

Danz03

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I do agree that W80 do sound very similar to ath-e70, definitely very good value for money (perhaps shouldn't say that in a Westone thread). Will definitely try them later with foam tips, should get better seal and boost the bass a little I'm sure.

I haven't used my Roxanne and Layla much nowadays, the nice things about them are the bass extension and the bass dial, as one can adjust the amount of bass precisely. However the bad things are the high frequencies, they sound a bit harsh to me, probably because it's hard to get all 4 treble drivers to be tuned identically. In fact the first Roxanne I got had problems with the treble drivers and have to be replaced, the replacement was better but still wasn't perfect. The Layla is better but I still prefer my K10U's, so I guess the W80s and ATH-E70 would be better too in terms of the high frequencies details.

That's what i said and why i returned w80.  Good to know im not just crazy or the only one.  e70 only 3 drivers why i believe drivers really don't matter.

Yes fit isn't the best on ath-e70, but they sound awesome to me.  I could only imagine how good they sound with proper seal.

e70 very source dependant.  Play a bassy song and compare to k10u.  Imho the bass is at least on par, if not better than the se846.  And like you mentioned, you need a good seal.

So would you say ath-e70 competes with Layla?
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 1:53 AM Post #2,090 of 3,033

ljnew

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I do agree that W80 do sound very similar to ath-e70, definitely very good value for money (perhaps shouldn't say that in a Westone thread). Will definitely try them later with foam tips, should get better seal and boost the bass a little I'm sure.

I haven't used my Roxanne and Layla much nowadays, the nice things about them are the bass extension and the bass dial, as one can adjust the amount of bass precisely. However the bad things are the high frequencies, they sound a bit harsh to me, probably because it's hard to get all 4 treble drivers to be tuned identically. In fact the first Roxanne I got had problems with the treble drivers and have to be replaced, the replacement was better but still wasn't perfect. The Layla is better but I still prefer my K10U's, so I guess the W80s and ATH-E70 would be better too in terms of the high frequencies details.

Ok Thanks!
 
By the way, e70 is very tip dependant.  If your using the stock tips, "u aint heard nothin yet!!" Try spiral dot tips and vmoda.  My favorite is vmoda bliss tightens treble and bass.  Only $5 bucks 
 
I consider the ath-e70 to be one of the most technical iem and I believe it was designed that way because its used for studio mixing.  Technical means it plays exactly the way the producer intended it to sound and is extremely unforgiving.
 
Would you say that any of the high end iem you mentioned are more technical than the e70?
If so which one?
If not you know of any more technical?
Also what about the mids?
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 10:18 AM Post #2,092 of 3,033

Danz03

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Been a big Westone fan since I moved from Shure E530PTH to UM2 when it first came out, then UM3x, UM3xRC, W3, W4, W4r, UM Pro 30 and W60, so I really wanted to like the Pro 50 but couldn't.

[COLOR=111111]Westone which version you purchased?[/COLOR]


I have been comparing the ATH-E70 (with comply tips supplied) against my K10U (using the AK240 unbalanced out), they do sound very similar, especially in the bass department, very deep low frequencies extension, probably better than the SE840 (as I remember my K10U beat my SE840 in bass extension) with just as much details in the highs and similar wide soundstage. The only difference is that the K10U has a little more low mids, which makes the overall sound a little thicker, which could be a good or bad thing depending on one's preference.

Comparing with the Pro 30, my everyday go to IEMs, the E70 definitely has a lot more high frequencies details (I think the Pro 30's trebles start to fall around 6-8kHz), the low mids and bass are similar to my K10U but with less low extensions.

So considering I paid less for the E70 than my Pro 30, they are super good value for money in terms of sound quality. However, not sure yet how well built they are comparing to the Pro 30, I'd still prefer to use my Pro 30 on the go, they are just so comfortable, compact and convenient to use in my opinion.

Out of all the IEMs I own ( you can check them out in my profile list), I'd consider my K10U (older non-metal version) the most balanced sounding, probably the E70 a close second, I'd use them to mix and master music if I have to. W60 is a completely different beast, they may not be very balanced or neutral sounding, but they make music very soothing and enjoyable to listen to.

Nearly forgot the SKE 1500, they are a little bass light and overly bright normally but one can adjust with the built-in equalizer to get a pretty balanced sound signature.

Ok Thanks!

By the way, e70 is very tip dependant.  If your using the stock tips, "u aint heard nothin yet!!" Try spiral dot tips and vmoda.  My favorite is vmoda bliss tightens treble and bass.  Only $5 bucks 

I consider the ath-e70 to be one of the most technical iem and I believe it was designed that way because its used for studio mixing.  Technical means it plays exactly the way the producer intended it to sound and is extremely unforgiving.

Would you say that any of the high end iem you mentioned are more technical than the e70?
If so which one?
If not you know of any more technical?
Also what about the mids?
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 10:32 AM Post #2,093 of 3,033

ljnew

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Been a big Westone fan since I moved from Shure E530PTH to UM2 when it first came out, then UM3x, UM3xRC, W3, W4, W4r, UM Pro 30 and W60, so I really wanted to like the Pro 50 but couldn't.
I have been comparing the ATH-E70 (with comply tips supplied) against my K10U (using the AK240 unbalanced out), they do sound very similar, especially in the bass department, very deep low frequencies extension, probably better than the SE840 (as I remember my K10U beat my SE840 in bass extension) with just as much details in the highs. The only difference is that the K10U has a little more low mids, which makes the overall sound a little thicker, which could be a good or bad thing depending on one's preference.

Comparing with the Pro 30, my everyday go to IEMs, the E70 definitely has a lot more high frequencies details (I think the Pro 30's trebles start to fall around 6-8kHz), the low mids and bass are similar to my K10U but with less low extensions.

So considering I paid less for the E70 than my Pro 30, they are super good value for money in terms of sound quality. However, not sure yet how well built they are comparing to the Pro 30, I'd still prefer to use my Pro 30 on the go, they are just so comfortable, compact and convenient to use in my opinion.

Out of all the IEMs I own ( you can check them out in my profile list), I'd consider my K10U (older non-metal version) the most balanced sounding, probably the E70 a close second, I'd use them to mix and master music if I have to. W60 is a completely different beast, they may not be very balanced or neutral sounding, but they make music very soothing and enjoyable to listen to.


Yes the bass on the e70 is great and to me is at least as good as se846 but mids and treble a lot clearer. Bass definitely better than any of my Westone iem.although westone clearly wins with comfort. The e70 can have brain rumbling bass when the song calls for it. Feels like it may knock my brain out of place. I guess e70 id headfi's best kept secret! And a steal for under $400.

kills the argument that price and driver count matters...

By the way u probably want to try the ckr9 or & ckr10. Only around $100 to 250. But audio technica known for having high quality iem at lower price.
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 1:21 PM Post #2,094 of 3,033
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I guess I will have to check out E70 :)  Honestly, I'm a bit skeptical it's anywhere close in resolution and transparency to W80.  I have tested and used IM03 for a long time, and E70 should be an updated version of IM03 which a few people told me sounds similar.  There are few things that separate high end flagship IEMs from the mid-fi monitors.  You can have a similar overall signature in terms of FR curve.  But when you starting to look/listen very close into technical details of the sound transparency, dynamic expansion, resolution (especially with higher bit rate dsd files), and accuracy of imaging - most of the 3xBA driver and 3way hybrids I tested fell short.  The only exception was UERR and it's unique neutral tuning, probably the only IEM I would use in my music productions.
 
I'm not saying you gentleman are wrong, and there is no way I can draw a conclusion based on all 3ways I have tested (every single IEM sounds different!!!).  But it's quite possible there is a similar sound sig and tonality resemblance between both.
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 2:59 PM Post #2,095 of 3,033

ljnew

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  I guess I will have to check out E70 :)  Honestly, I'm a bit skeptical it's anywhere close in resolution and transparency to W80.  I have tested and used IM03 for a long time, and E70 should be an updated version of IM03 which a few people told me sounds similar.  There are few things that separate high end flagship IEMs from the mid-fi monitors.  You can have a similar overall signature in terms of FR curve.  But when you starting to look/listen very close into technical details of the sound transparency, dynamic expansion, resolution (especially with higher bit rate dsd files), and accuracy of imaging - most of the 3xBA driver and 3way hybrids I tested fell short.  The only exception was UERR and it's unique neutral tuning, probably the only IEM I would use in my music productions.
 
I'm not saying you gentleman are wrong, and there is no way I can draw a conclusion based on all 3ways I have tested (every single IEM sounds different!!!).  But it's quite possible there is a similar sound sig and tonality resemblance between both.

ath-e70 blows im03 out the water!  I'm no betting man, but I'd bet people who said they are similar probably listened on subpar equipment.  Or not flat equipment.  
 
Also, Audio-technica specializes in studio mixing.  I know a lot of real life engineers who use Audio technica gear.
 
I understand your skepticism.  It seems too good to be true.  But I was skeptical and the other guy was skeptical, but hearing is believing!
 
Driver count really doesn't matter.  For example, if someone gave me e70 and w80 I would have absolutely no way to know one has 3 and the other had 8.  In fact, in a blind test i would think e70 had 8.  
 
I notice that everyone who listens to e70 worships them, but umpro 50 and w80 are either hit or miss.  I personally love um pro 50, but would definitely say e70 more technical.
 
Also w80, im03 are made for audiophiles while e70 made strictly for musicians and studio mixing meaning they are made to be accurate while w80 more colored and acquired taste but definitely wouldn't use for mixing.
 
I'm not saying i don't like w80, but im saying e70 more technical and less forgiving for sure.  Bass response on e70 clearly better and deeper and more accurate.  E70 bass is just beautiful, but fit is horrendous.   Which makes me wonder how the hel* it still sounds so good?  And only dream of how it would sound with proper isolation!
 
Listen to the e70 and let me know what you think..  But i can tell you right now, the note 4 or mp3 wont do it justice because the e70 is much to stern and unforgiving.
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 4:01 PM Post #2,096 of 3,033
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Strictly for music production, the only Westone I would use is ES60.  Otherwise you want something neutral so you don't adjust the mastering EQ to correct for the sound sig of your IEM or full size.  M50x is too bassy, not good for music production, but rather for monitoring or mixing.  I also reviewed M70x - horrible for listening, too flat, but some people like it for mixing and production because it's dead flat and bland.  I have all of them reviewed here.
 
With my current review queue, i'm booked for the next 2-3 months solid.  So, will ping AT a little bit later.  Otherwise, lets get back to UM Pro and W-series discussion since this is Westone thread
wink.gif

 
Jan 6, 2017 at 9:36 PM Post #2,097 of 3,033

Spyro

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If you are open to using EQ (treble boost), Pro50 is among the greatest I have ever heard.  Going on 2 years as my "go-to" IEM.  It has a heavier bass sound but what separates it from most everything else is:
 
- extreemly refined high quality driver sound.
- very natural organic sound.
- effortless full sound unamped.
- on the warm side but all the detail is there.  Great resolution.
- if you like to listen loud, zero distortion and non fatiguing for endless hours of listening.
- Insane vocals (did I say organic and natural?) Very balanced.  NOT claustrophobic like Pro30.
- I would prefer a larger soundstage but Pro50 allows you to REALLY immerse yourself into the music. It's a trade-off.
 
Jan 7, 2017 at 3:09 AM Post #2,098 of 3,033

Gosod

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I have been comparing the ATH-E70 (with comply tips supplied) against my K10U (using the AK240 unbalanced out), they do sound very similar, especially in the bass department, very deep low frequencies extension, probably better than the SE840 (as I remember my K10U beat my SE840 in bass extension) with just as much details in the highs and similar wide soundstage. The only difference is that the K10U has a little more low mids, which makes the overall sound a little thicker, which could be a good or bad thing depending on one's preference.

Comparing with the Pro 30, my everyday go to IEMs, the E70 definitely has a lot more high frequencies details (I think the Pro 30's trebles start to fall around 6-8kHz), the low mids and bass are similar to my K10U but with less low extensions.

So considering I paid less for the E70 than my Pro 30, they are super good value for money in terms of sound quality. However, not sure yet how well built they are comparing to the Pro 30, I'd still prefer to use my Pro 30 on the go, they are just so comfortable, compact and convenient to use in my opinion.

Out of all the IEMs I own ( you can check them out in my profile list), I'd consider my K10U (older non-metal version) the most balanced sounding, probably the E70 a close second, I'd use them to mix and master music if I have to. W60 is a completely different beast, they may not be very balanced or neutral sounding, but they make music very soothing and enjoyable to listen to.

have you tried to use a custom cable? I am more than confident that this would correct the problem with the lack of high frequencies!
 
Jan 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM Post #2,099 of 3,033

Danz03

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I don't think so, even if they could, why would I waste more money to correct a crappy IEM? Would be cheaper to downgrade it to Pro 30 for much better sound quality.

[COLOR=111111]have you tried to use a custom cable? I am more than confident that this would correct the problem with the lack of high frequencies![/COLOR]
 
Jan 7, 2017 at 11:22 AM Post #2,100 of 3,033

Ling Vu

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Strictly for music production, the only Westone I would use is ES60.  Otherwise you want something neutral so you don't adjust the mastering EQ to correct for the sound sig of your IEM or full size.  M50x is too bassy, not good for music production, but rather for monitoring or mixing.  I also reviewed M70x - horrible for listening, too flat, but some people like it for mixing and production because it's dead flat and bland.  I have all of them reviewed here.

With my current review queue, i'm booked for the next 2-3 months solid.  So, will ping AT a little bit later.  Otherwise, lets get back to UM Pro and W-series discussion since this is Westone thread :wink:


Hey twister6, I love and really enjoyed your reviews and one of them nearly got me to grab a pair of Westone. However, it seems that you are on the edge of having biased towards Westone TOTLs and against AT based on the ones you reviewed. Please reserve your judgement until you have fully experienced the E70, I am not saying those are the better but they are definitely many miles ahead of what you mentioned (m50x, m70x, IM03 or even the much loved MSR7) and above all (like many confirmed) have a very non- AT sound signature :D

P/S: Similar to you, I wont EQ in any case to get the most original sound of a pair of IEMs or cans that manufacturers want us to hear.
 

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