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Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by theawesomesauceshow, Aug 16, 2011.
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  1. bigshot
    I don't see how an analogue problem could be responsible, because WAV sounded good and FLAC didn't. They both would go through the same analogue chain. A difference between WAV and FLAC could be because of one of two things... 1) CPU not being able to keep up with decoding the FLAC or 2) expectation bias. If the difference is huge glitches, it's most likely the former. If it's a more subtle difference, it's probably the latter.
  2. 71 dB
    Why blame lossless compression for your shitty hardware not functioning as it should? Digital-to-analog conversion and "analog side" shouldn't be affected by power fluctuations. Yes, cheap Chinese capasitors are crap these days, but lossless compression is not to blame for that. Chinese manufacturers are to blame.
  3. bigshot
    Power fluctuation would shut down your hard drive and CPU long before it would affect capacitors.
  4. tansand
    Yeah that's no surprise, no response but deflections to Look! Look over there!

    I'm done with this backwater.
  5. colonelkernel8
    What are you on about? Nothing here is a deflection. WAV and FLAC are bit perfect, full stop. These folks are trying to determine what’s causing the sound difference.
  6. bigshot
    Do you promise?
  7. gregorio
    1. No! CDs do NOT contain music, just digital data. You have to convert that data, you cannot hear zeros and ones. And btw, talking about CDs is effectively off-topic because CDs contain neither flac nor wav files, they contain caf files and all these file types (and every other digital audio file type) have to be converted into PCM data in order for your DAC chip to process them!
    1a. Again, what has audio, flawless or not, got to do with anything? We're not talking about audio, there is no audio until AFTER is converted, it's just digital data.
    1b. Digital data is flawless, if it were not, your smartphone, computer, laptop, tablet, TV, etc., would crash continually as they process billions or hundreds of billions of bits of data every second.

    2. Yep, any day now we'll discover that we are all mistaken and that all the trillions of files which have been losslessly compressed (with zip, rar, alac, flac, etc.) for more than 25 years, in fact all have insoluble errors and don't work after all. Fortunately, this global catastrophe you're effectively predicting will not occur!

    1. Converting between file types and converting digital zeros and ones into electrical/analogue (on/off) conditions is how ALL computer based technology works. So again, if there really were a problem (with power rails or whatever) with decompression and/or conversion, then no computer, smartphone, digital TV, etc., would ever work.

    2. How is it possible that you do not understand even the basic nature of computing and information theory? And, if that's not bad enough, why on earth would you come to a science forum of all places and argue on the basis of that lack of basic understanding? Unlike you, I really am surprised!
    2a. Surprisingly, you've got that backwards. A middle school or higher level understanding of the basic nature of computing (and therefore of the modern digital world) does not make this forum a backwater. A place populated by people who haven't the faintest idea of what "digital" means, now that would be a backwater, a shockingly ignorant one. Fortunately for you, there are such forums on head-fi and fortunately for us, this is NOT one of them!

    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  8. tansand
    Enjoy your life, gregorio, bigshot, I certainly don't envy you.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  9. gregorio
    You certainly don't envy us having a middle school (or higher) level of education?
    Is ignorance bliss? Maybe it is, but not in this forum!!
    Enjoy your blissful life.

  10. Niouke
    what a joke

    We are not discussing audio here, but math. Lossless compression is just that, nothing is lost in the compression.

    I had this very argument with a photographer the other day, and the analogy i used is the .bmp picture format:
    Expecting FLAC files to sound different to WAV is like expecting a .bmp picture to look different once zipped. I never heard from him since then.
    71 dB likes this.
  11. tansand
    Pay better attention, jokey, it's actually a completely different argument than the one you had. After the file is uncompressed is not what I'm taking about. I was talking about the varying power demands of the uncompressing affecting the operation of the conversion and the following analog stages. This was just one possibility I remembered from years ago, the last time I thought about it. If you guys want to ever rise above the current level of discussion you're wallowing around in, which I doubt, try to pay attention to the point and stay focused.

    And you enjoy your bitter, angry life, gregorio. You too, bigshot. I couldn't care less. :)
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  12. gregorio
    1. If your device cannot manage the power (electrical or computational power) that a 25 year old laptop could easily manage without batting an eyelid, then your device has a serious fault or very serious design flaw!
    2. And if you ever want to rise above the apparent level of grade school, which I doubt, try to pay attention!
    3. Being educated does not make my life bitter or angry, although it may not be as blissful as yours. The difference is that I do care, because it's that blissful ignorance which causes so much snake oil and the ruination of my hobby.

  13. tansand
    Ruination's seeping under the door, man. It's coming in all the cracks.
  14. gregorio
    Being blissfully ignorant, wanting to remain blissfully ignorant and being proud of your blissful ignorance is a strange choice but it is your choice. Doing it here though, in this forum, can only be viewed as trolling and is unacceptable!

  15. Niouke
    I don't see the point you are trying to make, If we talk about a sound reproducing system from a digital source, the uncompressing of the flac file is part of the digital source. As long as the 0 and 1s are provided to the DAC in a timely manner the FLAC or WAV will be converted to analog the exact same way. If you want to move a goalposts and turn this into a computing discussion that's fine but uninterresting. Smooth FLAC decoding is a topic from the 90's as nowadays even wrist watches have more than several times the horsepower to perform this task flawlessly.
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