[StanD]

 
I don't have to agree with you or anybody else.  I am aware of lossless file formats and the fact that so many people scrutinize over testing each one blindly.   Therefore, I am not ignorant.  I don't see why so many of you get disturbed when someone prefers one codec over the other.  If I prefer the sound of WAV format, it does not mean that it is the best sounding or that is even better than any other format.  It simply means that WAV sounds the best to me with my equipment.  I am not ignorant, wrong or right.  WAV files just sound more pleasing to me.  There is no reason to insult someone just because they prefer the sound of WAV files, but many of you have the need to so that you feel better about yourselves and your convictions.
 
Peace

Sorry if I insulted you. I'm bad.

 

[Music Alchemist]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/738552/testing-the-claim-i-can-hear-differences-between-lossless-formats
 
Anyone who perceives a difference between lossless formats is welcome to test it out properly at my thread.

 

[DrKC]

  Unless your player is not properly decoding FLAC, there is absolutely no difference. Flac and WAV both send exactly the same bitstream to the DAC.

 
That's what I was alluding to when I stated that it must be related to processing.
 
 

y equipment
  Its all in your head. No pun intended. You could not tell the difference with ultra high end equipment let alone what you are using. No insult intended I use Fiio X3.

 
I think it might be a little presumptuous on your part to emphatically state what I can or cannot hear.  If someone here claimed to hear the scream of a Chilean dwarf diving into a giant bowl of rice pudding while listening to Stairway to Heaven and went as far as describing the percussive spatial cues as his head hit a giant raisin, I certainly wouldn't be the one to dispute it.  I know nothing about his copy of the song or what medication he might be on.   As to my equipment, I would be happy to share the list if you're really interested.
 
 

   
I picked a hell of a day to stop drinking.

 
Why on earth would you even consider it?  I thought a membership in the Academy of Malt Scotch Whisky was a requirement for stereo equipment ownership.
 
As to proof, I can only offer that I didn't start out trying to hear a difference.  I just kept noticing that certain songs just didn't sound right - you know, those songs you've listened to 1000 times.  The flacs I have were generated from the wav files ripped with EAC, so I had both to compare on the player.  When both were played, it was clear there was something going on.  I then ran the digital output to a dac and HP amp.  Still a difference, so I ran it through 4 dacs and 6 different amps.  That's what lead me to believe it had to do with the unpacking process in the X3.  I noted no differences when I got the X5.  So yes, the OP may be hearing a difference - just not a true flac vs wav difference.
 
You guys need to ease up a bit and consider there might be some other factors involved.

 

[bigshot]

I really don't know why people start threads like this if they aren't interested in learning from the people around them.

 

[bikerboy94]

   
That's what I was alluding to when I stated that it must be related to processing.
 
 
 
I think it might be a little presumptuous on your part to emphatically state what I can or cannot hear.  If someone here claimed to hear the scream of a Chilean dwarf diving into a giant bowl of rice pudding while listening to Stairway to Heaven and went as far as describing the percussive spatial cues as his head hit a giant raisin, I certainly wouldn't be the one to dispute it.  I know nothing about his copy of the song or what medication he might be on.   As to my equipment, I would be happy to share the list if you're really interested.
 
 
 
Why on earth would you even consider it?  I thought a membership in the Academy of Malt Scotch Whisky was a requirement for stereo equipment ownership.
 
As to proof, I can only offer that I didn't start out trying to hear a difference.  I just kept noticing that certain songs just didn't sound right - you know, those songs you've listened to 1000 times.  The flacs I have were generated from the wav files ripped with EAC, so I had both to compare on the player.  When both were played, it was clear there was something going on.  I then ran the digital output to a dac and HP amp.  Still a difference, so I ran it through 4 dacs and 6 different amps.  That's what lead me to believe it had to do with the unpacking process in the X3.  I noted no differences when I got the X5.  So yes, the OP may be hearing a difference - just not a true flac vs wav difference.
 
You guys need to ease up a bit and consider there might be some other factors involved.

I didn't say anyone couldn't hear differences. I said it was all In there heads. Equipment doesn't matter.

 

[DrKC]

 
I didn't say anyone couldn't hear differences. I said it was all In there heads. Equipment doesn't matter.

Hmm.. ???  OK
I'm out.

 

[bikerboy94]

 
Hmm.. quite a backtrack
But then again I won't get into a tinkling match over digital audio.  I've got battle scars that are probably older than you relating to dacs, adcs, etc.  Oh, and yes equipment DOES matter.  There are sooo many expensive dacs that are just plain bad.  But that's another story.  As I explained in my post, the issue was with pre-processing issues, not reproduction factors.  I'll leave it at that.

I meant what equipment one has doesn't  matter as far as being able to tell difference between WAV and Flac.  Of course it makes a difference in music quality..
My first new car had 8 track so I've been around awhile.

 

[limpidglitch]

 
As to proof, I can only offer that I didn't start out trying to hear a difference.  I just kept noticing that certain songs just didn't sound right - you know, those songs you've listened to 1000 times.  The flacs I have were generated from the wav files ripped with EAC, so I had both to compare on the player.  When both were played, it was clear there was something going on.  I then ran the digital output to a dac and HP amp.  Still a difference, so I ran it through 4 dacs and 6 different amps.  That's what lead me to believe it had to do with the unpacking process in the X3.  I noted no differences when I got the X5.  So yes, the OP may be hearing a difference - just not a true flac vs wav difference.
 
You guys need to ease up a bit and consider there might be some other factors involved.

 
The X3 has digital out, doesn't it?
Capture a track, once played from FLAC and once played from WAV, and compare* both to the original on your computer. It should prove pretty conclusively whether there is a difference or not.
 
*essentially, do a difference test.

 

[Don Hills]

There might be a real difference in the way an X3 processes FLAC vs WAV. Unlikely, but provable.
Take a WAV (or a FLAC) file.
Use a reliable converter (such as Sox?) to convert it to the other format.
You now have two files of the same music. Load them on the X3.
Listen to them enough times to be confident that you can identify the differences.
Now invite a friend and give them the player.
Put on your headphones and sit with your back to your friend. Better, have them sit in the next room and run the cable under the door.
Have them randomly select one track or the other and write down their selection.
You listen to each selection, decide if it is WAV or FLAC and write it down.
After at least 10 to 20 selections, compare answers.
If you get them mostly right (there are people reading this who can help analyse the results), you might be on to something.
 
Note that your friend will have to be careful not to telegraph their selections. For example, if they are in the same room you may hear a different sequence of button clicks when they select the other track versus replaying the same one. Or it may take them longer to select the other track and press play than just pressing play on the same track.

 

[bigshot]

and good luck not looking like you don't know what you are doing!

 

[anetode]

 
I think it might be a little presumptuous on your part to emphatically state what I can or cannot hear.  If someone here claimed to hear the scream of a Chilean dwarf diving into a giant bowl of rice pudding while listening to Stairway to Heaven and went as far as describing the percussive spatial cues as his head hit a giant raisin, I certainly wouldn't be the one to dispute it.  I know nothing about his copy of the song or what medication he might be on.   As to my equipment, I would be happy to share the list if you're really interested.

And as to your medication list?

 

[kraken2109]

If I zip or rar files on my computer, then unzip/unrar them they are unchanged. That's what lossless compression is - the files, once uncompressed, are identical.

 

[StanD]

  If I zip or rar files on my computer, then unzip/unrar them they are unchanged. That's what lossless compression is - the files, once uncompressed, are identical.

Unless you are comparing lossless formats, that has absolutely nothing to do with the lossy compression of audio that uses perceptual coding and a human's ability to perceive any differences.
Or were you referring to the previous post about wav and flac?

 

[kraken2109]

  Unless you are comparing lossless formats, that has absolutely nothing to do with the lossy compression of audio that uses perceptual coding and a human's ability to perceive any differences.
Or were you referring to the previous post about wav and flac?

I am talking about lossless compression, since that's what this thread is about - WAV vs FLAC etc

 

[StanD]

  I am talking about lossless compression, since that's what this thread is about - WAV vs FLAC etc

You're right, I must have lost track of which thread I was on.