Watts Up...?
Oct 18, 2021 at 7:33 AM Post #2,746 of 3,635

ecwl

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That is funny, I was watching it yesterday and I thought it sounds really a bit better, although still almost no depth on my system, but quite a bit more musical. The service "joyn" has so much depth that I suddenly looked up (a bit shocked in a positive way) because I heard someone 10 meters away. It also sounds warm but lively.
I don't know why I hear compression artefacts sometimes as harshness/brittleness. Not really bright but hard somehow.
Uncompressed files with MDave I hear as very clear but also smooth and warm.

My pleasure 😉
How is your NVidia Shield TV Pro HDMI audio signal converted to feed MDave? Maybe the converter is the problem?
I connect my NVidia Shield TV to my Panasonic TV and then use the TV to convert it to 2-channel Toslink to feed M-Scaler.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 11:32 AM Post #2,747 of 3,635

thePhones

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How is your NVidia Shield TV Pro HDMI audio signal converted to feed MDave? Maybe the converter is the problem?
I connect my NVidia Shield TV to my Panasonic TV and then use the TV to convert it to 2-channel Toslink to feed M-Scaler.
Same config as yours. Except it's a Sony TV.
I think it is just the compression I can do nothing about. I would love to buy some movies or series on Bluray but they want us in the subscribtion.
 
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Oct 18, 2021 at 12:20 PM Post #2,748 of 3,635

ecwl

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Same config as yours. Except it's a Sony TV.
I think it is just the compression I can do nothing about. I would love to buy some movies or series on Bluray but they want us in the subscribtion.
wait a minute. Some of these shows have a Dolby Atmos soundtrack instead of lossy Dolby digital 5.1. I wonder if your Sony is taking the lowest bitrate stream instead of say Dolby Atmos and sending it to your M-Scaler. I haven’t checked the sound setting of NVidia for a while, maybe you can convert the surround sound to stereo in Shield instead in the TV (or vice versa) and see if you get better sound this way? Not sure.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 1:31 PM Post #2,749 of 3,635

thePhones

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wait a minute. Some of these shows have a Dolby Atmos soundtrack instead of lossy Dolby digital 5.1. I wonder if your Sony is taking the lowest bitrate stream instead of say Dolby Atmos and sending it to your M-Scaler. I haven’t checked the sound setting of NVidia for a while, maybe you can convert the surround sound to stereo in Shield instead in the TV (or vice versa) and see if you get better sound this way? Not sure.
As far as I know there are three options:
1. dolby conversion inside the shield, which tells the app (Netflix etc.) to use the 5.1 or Atmos stream. To me this sounded better in terms of dynamics. But this also sometimes sounds worse to me in terms of digital compression. Just tested Mandalorian… I feel it sounds better with dolby conversion over all (more clarity, bit better depth and a lot better focus), somehow with higher gain in multichannel. Maybe this is the way to go for Disney streams, I will test this further with other movies.
2. Telling the app via shield that you only have stereo setup which I use mostly. The downside to that is, it sometimes has worse dynamic range (most likely so it suits better for basic tv sound)
3. Using passthrough of multichannel stream and let the tv do the conversion, but this completely negates the shields ability to delay the audio.

So with the delay (full 1M taps) there are only option one and two (at least to my knowledge, which is limited, like everybodys, hence why I ask😄)
@Rob Watts Do you have the dolby coversion slider in the settings on or off? Which sounds better to you?…Two channel stream by the app or multichannel stream converted by the shield?

I am excited to hear what Rob thinks but to me it seems dolby conversion inside shield is the solution for Disney (thanks @ecwl for reminding me of that setting). For Netflix, in tests I did in the past, it was not…but it was not so much of a problem there anyways.
 
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Oct 19, 2021 at 4:12 PM Post #2,750 of 3,635

pkny

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Hello Mr. Watts @Rob Watts , I am curious and would like to understand why I am having noise/interference issue with my Hugo2+2Go.

Here is what happened:

With the WiFi is on and without playing any music, I heard static noise from the right-side of my IEM, which was connected to Hugo2’s 3.5mm output. I tried 3 different AKG IEMs, 1More IEM and an Aeon 2 Noire. All 3 AKG IEMs have this static noise, while others don’t. The static noise occurs when switching on the WiFi in the 2Go. I can hear the noise for 2-3 seconds, then it goes to silent. After that, the noise re-appears in every 20 to 30 seconds for a duration of 2-3 seconds. The noise appears even Hugo2 is on mute. With the stock charger is connected, the noise is louder. When I changed the input on Hugo2 to something other than USB, the noise goes away.

To sum it up, the noise appears when:
  • 2Go’s WiFi is on.
  • With AKG IEMs (18-32 ohm, 112 to 115 dB/V, dual dynamic drivers or dynamic+BA drivers) connected to 3.5mm. (haven’t try the other outputs)
  • No music is playing.
  • Hugo2 is on USB input.
  • Noise is louder with the charger connected.
I did the same test with Mojo+Poly, but I did not get any static noise.

My first guess is that the noise is RFI from the WiFi chip inside the 2Go, and the noise goes through from the USB connections to Hugo2. However, I remember you mention that Hugo2 has a better USB RF filtering than what Mojo has. If the noise goes through from the USB, Mojo should have that static noise, too. But it isn’t. Rob, do you have any insight of why the noise appear?



Second question:

I found the sound changed when the stock charger is connected to 2Go+Hugo2, even just using headphones. With just the internal batteries, the sounds is smoother and warmer but with air around the instruments. The soundstage also has depth. When the stock charger is connected, the sound is harsher and brighter, and the worst – soundstage is flat. I tried to bring the sound quality (with charger connected) closer to battery mode by using power conditioners, AC parallel filters, ferrite clamps, and power banks. All those filters, clamps, and power banks change the sound, but nothing compare to unplugging other electronics that are in the same circuit. Still, just using the internal batteries beats all those filters and power banks. Is it my AC is too dirty that the noise affects the 2Go and Hugo2? Is there anything I can do to make the SQ closer to battery mode? If I use them in battery mode 4 hours per day, how long do the batteries last?

Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining. I love all my Chord devices, and I have been saving up to get the MScalar. I just want to get the best out of what I have.

I appreciate your reply. Thank you.
 
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Oct 19, 2021 at 4:54 PM Post #2,751 of 3,635

musickid

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Hi Rob,

We know that some audiophile usb/bnc cables actually degrade SQ due to artificial tuning. With regards to audiophile rca cables are there any characteristics or brand we should look for to ensure the best SQ?

Are 0.5 metre rca's okay with qutest/amp ? Longer bnc cables reduce ground currents but as i'm thinking of going the qutest/mscaler route would 0.5 metre bnc's be fine while on the subject. Many thanks MK.
 
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Oct 19, 2021 at 9:22 PM Post #2,752 of 3,635

ecwl

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As far as I know there are three options:
1. dolby conversion inside the shield, which tells the app (Netflix etc.) to use the 5.1 or Atmos stream. To me this sounded better in terms of dynamics. But this also sometimes sounds worse to me in terms of digital compression. Just tested Mandalorian… I feel it sounds better with dolby conversion over all (more clarity, bit better depth and a lot better focus), somehow with higher gain in multichannel. Maybe this is the way to go for Disney streams, I will test this further with other movies.
2. Telling the app via shield that you only have stereo setup which I use mostly. The downside to that is, it sometimes has worse dynamic range (most likely so it suits better for basic tv sound)
3. Using passthrough of multichannel stream and let the tv do the conversion, but this completely negates the shields ability to delay the audio.

So with the delay (full 1M taps) there are only option one and two (at least to my knowledge, which is limited, like everybodys, hence why I ask😄)
@Rob Watts Do you have the dolby coversion slider in the settings on or off? Which sounds better to you?…Two channel stream by the app or multichannel stream converted by the shield?

I am excited to hear what Rob thinks but to me it seems dolby conversion inside shield is the solution for Disney (thanks @ecwl for reminding me of that setting). For Netflix, in tests I did in the past, it was not…but it was not so much of a problem there anyways.
So under Advanced sound settings, I just choose Audio Video Sync to be 660ms, Dolby audio processing on, select formats: Auto. And then on my Panasonic TV, I do have to use it to downmix to stereo. I am aware some TVs can’t do that. But mine works and sounds fine.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 3:02 AM Post #2,753 of 3,635

Rob Watts

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As far as I know there are three options:
1. dolby conversion inside the shield, which tells the app (Netflix etc.) to use the 5.1 or Atmos stream. To me this sounded better in terms of dynamics. But this also sometimes sounds worse to me in terms of digital compression. Just tested Mandalorian… I feel it sounds better with dolby conversion over all (more clarity, bit better depth and a lot better focus), somehow with higher gain in multichannel. Maybe this is the way to go for Disney streams, I will test this further with other movies.
2. Telling the app via shield that you only have stereo setup which I use mostly. The downside to that is, it sometimes has worse dynamic range (most likely so it suits better for basic tv sound)
3. Using passthrough of multichannel stream and let the tv do the conversion, but this completely negates the shields ability to delay the audio.

So with the delay (full 1M taps) there are only option one and two (at least to my knowledge, which is limited, like everybodys, hence why I ask😄)
@Rob Watts Do you have the dolby coversion slider in the settings on or off? Which sounds better to you?…Two channel stream by the app or multichannel stream converted by the shield?

I am excited to hear what Rob thinks but to me it seems dolby conversion inside shield is the solution for Disney (thanks @ecwl for reminding me of that setting). For Netflix, in tests I did in the past, it was not…but it was not so much of a problem there anyways.

I always used Dolby off so that default stereo mix is sent to Shield. I briefly tried it, and found with the particular program I used, (something on Netflix) it sounded bright and a bit hard with Dolby on. I will give it another go with Disney though.

Hello Mr. Watts @Rob Watts , I am curious and would like to understand why I am having noise/interference issue with my Hugo2+2Go.

Here is what happened:

With the WiFi is on and without playing any music, I heard static noise from the right-side of my IEM, which was connected to Hugo2’s 3.5mm output. I tried 3 different AKG IEMs, 1More IEM and an Aeon 2 Noire. All 3 AKG IEMs have this static noise, while others don’t. The static noise occurs when switching on the WiFi in the 2Go. I can hear the noise for 2-3 seconds, then it goes to silent. After that, the noise re-appears in every 20 to 30 seconds for a duration of 2-3 seconds. The noise appears even Hugo2 is on mute. With the stock charger is connected, the noise is louder. When I changed the input on Hugo2 to something other than USB, the noise goes away.

To sum it up, the noise appears when:
  • 2Go’s WiFi is on.
  • With AKG IEMs (18-32 ohm, 112 to 115 dB/V, dual dynamic drivers or dynamic+BA drivers) connected to 3.5mm. (haven’t try the other outputs)
  • No music is playing.
  • Hugo2 is on USB input.
  • Noise is louder with the charger connected.
I did the same test with Mojo+Poly, but I did not get any static noise.

My first guess is that the noise is RFI from the WiFi chip inside the 2Go, and the noise goes through from the USB connections to Hugo2. However, I remember you mention that Hugo2 has a better USB RF filtering than what Mojo has. If the noise goes through from the USB, Mojo should have that static noise, too. But it isn’t. Rob, do you have any insight of why the noise appear?



Second question:

I found the sound changed when the stock charger is connected to 2Go+Hugo2, even just using headphones. With just the internal batteries, the sounds is smoother and warmer but with air around the instruments. The soundstage also has depth. When the stock charger is connected, the sound is harsher and brighter, and the worst – soundstage is flat. I tried to bring the sound quality (with charger connected) closer to battery mode by using power conditioners, AC parallel filters, ferrite clamps, and power banks. All those filters, clamps, and power banks change the sound, but nothing compare to unplugging other electronics that are in the same circuit. Still, just using the internal batteries beats all those filters and power banks. Is it my AC is too dirty that the noise affects the 2Go and Hugo2? Is there anything I can do to make the SQ closer to battery mode? If I use them in battery mode 4 hours per day, how long do the batteries last?

Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining. I love all my Chord devices, and I have been saving up to get the MScalar. I just want to get the best out of what I have.

I appreciate your reply. Thank you.

First question - 2go isn't one of my projects, and I haven't tried it, so I can't help. It's a puzzle though, the fact that with USB off there is no noise... I suggest you email Chord support, they are pretty good at answering this type of question.

Second question - yes adding the charger to Hugo 2 can make it sound brighter. If you were using Hugo 2 in desktop mode, I recommend using a battery power bank, and charge the power bank overnight - then Hugo 2 is in desktop mode, but you preserve the SQ benefits of battery mode. I haven't heard a reduction in depth though.

Hi Rob,

We know that some audiophile usb/bnc cables actually degrade SQ due to artificial tuning. With regards to audiophile rca cables are there any characteristics or brand we should look for to ensure the best SQ?

Are 0.5 metre rca's okay with qutest/amp ? Longer bnc cables reduce ground currents but as i'm thinking of going the qutest/mscaler route would 0.5 metre bnc's be fine while on the subject. Many thanks MK.

So are you thinking of the interconnects between Qutest and the amp? The best I used was 0.4mm solid core, individually insulated with PTFE and screened (8 cores signal 8 cores return multiple twists and heat treated with annealing after twisting). Since I always make my own cables, I haven't seen a commercial cable that I like the look of. For interconnect cables, shorter is better.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 3:24 AM Post #2,754 of 3,635

musickid

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Dual bnc's of 2m sound slightly better than 1m. For me would 0.5m dual bnc's between qutest//mscaler sound any different to 1m? 0.5m is more practical for mQutest but i would go with 1m if SQ is better.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 6:37 AM Post #2,755 of 3,635

thePhones

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I always used Dolby off so that default stereo mix is sent to Shield. I briefly tried it, and found with the particular program I used, (something on Netflix) it sounded bright and a bit hard with Dolby on. I will give it another go with Disney though.
Had the same experience with Netflix sounding hard with the dolby stream. Disney also sounds brighter but in a more natural way. I absolutely loved the presentation of Thron as it has so much prominent music. The two channel version sounds hard to me, thats why I stopped watching it before.
Now I need a quick setting/dolby toggle for each streaming service😄
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 2:56 PM Post #2,756 of 3,635

thePhones

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Dual bnc's of 2m sound slightly better than 1m. For me would 0.5m dual bnc's between qutest//mscaler sound any different to 1m? 0.5m is more practical for mQutest but i would go with 1m if SQ is better.
I remember Rob saying that 2m sounds best, longer or shorter getting a bit worse. I tried a 0,5m with Hugo 2 sounding worse than 1m. Solution could be building a 0,5m cable with ~2ghz ferrite cores if you want to solder it yourself. But it is trial and error as nobudy build it at this length before as far as know. Problem would probably be that you are not able to fit enough ferrites on the cable, but you can try if a short cable is important to you.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 3:44 PM Post #2,757 of 3,635

Triode User

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I remember Rob saying that 2m sounds best, longer or shorter getting a bit worse. I tried a 0,5m with Hugo 2 sounding worse than 1m. Solution could be building a 0,5m cable with ~2ghz ferrite cores if you want to solder it yourself. But it is trial and error as nobudy build it at this length before as far as know. Problem would probably be that you are not able to fit enough ferrites on the cable, but you can try if a short cable is important to you.
I have built a 60cm cable but it compromised the sound quality so i recycled the materials.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 5:58 PM Post #2,758 of 3,635

pkny

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First question - 2go isn't one of my projects, and I haven't tried it, so I can't help. It's a puzzle though, the fact that with USB off there is no noise... I suggest you email Chord support, they are pretty good at answering this type of question.

Second question - yes adding the charger to Hugo 2 can make it sound brighter. If you were using Hugo 2 in desktop mode, I recommend using a battery power bank, and charge the power bank overnight - then Hugo 2 is in desktop mode, but you preserve the SQ benefits of battery mode. I haven't heard a reduction in depth though.

Hi Mr. Watts @Rob Watts,

Thank you for the reply. I retested the 2Go. Actually, It has the static noise on all inputs. I will email Chord support for that. My current Anker power banks will shut down the output when charging. Do you mean connect a power bank that can simultaneously charging and discharging?

Thanks again. Appreciated.
 
Oct 20, 2021 at 9:22 PM Post #2,759 of 3,635

feddar

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The M Scaler (and any of my DACs) can and will only report the incoming data rate (that's why I put it on). So it's the app that's the problem here.
Understood. But if the app plays a 192/24 track, and then the next one is truly 44/24 but the HMS still shows 192/24, does that mean the app is playing the 44/24 track at 192/24 somehow, or is it just labeled as such?
 
Oct 21, 2021 at 3:16 AM Post #2,760 of 3,635

technobear

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Understood. But if the app plays a 192/24 track, and then the next one is truly 44/24 but the HMS still shows 192/24, does that mean the app is playing the 44/24 track at 192/24 somehow, or is it just labeled as such?
The DAC is telling you what it is receiving. Your source is upsampling.
 

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